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How Eduardo Saverin sold Facebook ads in 2004 (2012)

102 points by ankitkumar98 6y ago

GuiA 6y ago
[2012] needed in title. That slide deck is certainly a historical artefact worth preserving. And yeah, Facebook does roll off the tongue better than Thefacebook.com.
- ankitkumar98 6y ago
  edited. And definitely agree on the second point.
saagarjha 6y ago
> The knock on Facebook is often that it doesn’t have its ad strategy figured out. Did a double take until I saw the date. This aged spectacularly poorly…
- newswasboring 6y ago
  How did that age poorly? They didn't say they can't figure it out, they said they haven't. And from what I read, they had not at the time.
triangleman 6y ago
I'm assuming that all of those targeting factors match up to the user-provided info in their profile. So for instance "house/dormitory" was probably a profile field back in 2004. Kind of reminds me of how Google started selling ads, just buy a keyword, that's it. And the CPM was determined by bidding (though I'm not sure how you make that fair)
- isiahl 6y ago
  Well, in the same slide deck it talks about how it recorded the users last access location and "the site has a built-in database of school dormitories and halls". Is it possible that the site was able to automatically determine what hall/dorm you were in depending on your network connection?
  - triangleman 6y ago
    Actually yes, now that I looked at dang's link to the same post discussed previously on HN, that's exactly what they were doing: determining dorm/hall based on IP address and other stuff. So my comment was dead wrong. I'm sorry for assuming that facebook ever regarded its users as anything other than "dumb fucks" that they could track as they please.
gabaix 6y ago
Slide 5 “The College Addiction” talks about the addictive nature of Facebook. Using the word addiction must have been a sound sales pitch in the early days. An expression that has quickly been replaced by technical terms like ‘engagement’ and ‘retention’.
- smichel17 6y ago
  > Slide 5 “The College Addiction” talks about the addictive nature of Facebook. > Using the word addiction must have been a sound sales pitch in the early days. An expression that has quickly been replaced by technical terms like ‘engagement’ and ‘retention’. > Using the word addiction must have been a sound sales pitch in the early days. Yes, it used to be a positive thing, eg, "So good/fun you'll get addicted". I haven't thought about addictinggames.com for maybe a decade but it seems like they're still around.
noncoml 6y ago
They should be forced to display this in their sign up page. And with bold letters: "Be warned: We are trying to sell target ads based on your sensitive personal information such as, but not limited to: Sex Sexual Orientation Relationship status Income Education level "
- jaywalk 6y ago
  Maybe I'm weird, but I don't mind ads being targeted to me based on any info that I choose to make publicly available. If I have to see ads, at least give me relevant ones. I know Facebook goes well beyond that into some pretty creepy territory, but that's not what I'm talking about.
  - eberkund 6y ago
    Most of the info is not publicly available but collected by inferring information about based on the pages you visit, who you talk and which other users you associate with.
    - heromal 6y ago
      That's... Public info.
      - Fezzik 6y ago
        I think that is in reference to Facebook mining your DMs and web searches, neither of which are viewable to your FB friends or other internet users at large. FB accesses any and everything they can regarding your browsing behavior and ends up with far more data about a user than what is displayed publicly on the user’s public profile.
  - pwdisswordfish2 6y ago
    You are not the first to react with this cognitive dissonance. What if you don't have to see ads? Your reasoning depends on a presupposition that has been sold to you by Facebook and the tech industry that survives on ad spend. If you read the terms on the Facebook website it says, paraphrasing, "Facebook shall always remain free". It is not free of course, for its customers. The rationale Facebook offers for why it muct be free is something like "it must be free so Facebook can be available to people in poorer countries as a means of communication". Eeven if that were a reason, it is not a rationale why it must be free for Americans. The truth is actually that you are not Facebook's customer, unless you are buying ads or promotions. They can only charge customers. In order to lure in subjects (particpants) for the customers to advertise to, Facebook creates a website and gives participants their own pages where they can share photos, etc. and communicate with each other. Even particpants in clinical trials or other research studies get paid. Facebook should be paying you for being part of their experiment.
dang 6y ago
Discussed at the time (of the article): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4408304 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4408304
- newswasboring 6y ago
  The top comment there[1] describe use of ad in such a wholesome way that I almost cried. Don't even know why it effected me so much. Is this what facebook ads should have been? People advertising to each other rather than companies advertising to people? Another question which poped in my head is would this lead to more or less data gathering? To target in such a hyper localized way can either be done with a lot of info or in a less intrusive way by just looking at the buyer's social graph. [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4408747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4408747
noelrock 6y ago
I realise I’m probably not in a majority here on this one but: I’m not offended or too bothered by being targeted by ads on Facebook. What I am offended by however is how poor the targeted ads are on Facebook. I don’t think I’ve ever bought anything based on one or even been tempted to.
- rawoke083600 6y ago
  This ! Looking in from the other side..Im usually appalled at how bad their advertising is from an advertisers point of view. I tried to target ppl for 'broadband options', Thus one might expect the lead to have a house(not own just a roof over his head) , He might liked netflix and streaming and certain modern games. The amount of basically 'homeless ppl' liking the ad is amazing ! Like the bulk genuinely just look like fake profiles ! Not

102 points by ankitkumar98 6y ago

GuiA 6y ago

[2012] needed in title. That slide deck is certainly a historical artefact worth preserving. And yeah, Facebook does roll off the tongue better than Thefacebook.com.

ankitkumar98 6y ago
edited. And definitely agree on the second point.

saagarjha 6y ago

> The knock on Facebook is often that it doesn’t have its ad strategy figured out. Did a double take until I saw the date. This aged spectacularly poorly…

newswasboring 6y ago
How did that age poorly? They didn't say they can't figure it out, they said they haven't. And from what I read, they had not at the time.

triangleman 6y ago

I'm assuming that all of those targeting factors match up to the user-provided info in their profile. So for instance "house/dormitory" was probably a profile field back in 2004. Kind of reminds me of how Google started selling ads, just buy a keyword, that's it. And the CPM was determined by bidding (though I'm not sure how you make that fair)

isiahl 6y ago
Well, in the same slide deck it talks about how it recorded the users last access location and "the site has a built-in database of school dormitories and halls". Is it possible that the site was able to automatically determine what hall/dorm you were in depending on your network connection?
- triangleman 6y ago
  Actually yes, now that I looked at dang's link to the same post discussed previously on HN, that's exactly what they were doing: determining dorm/hall based on IP address and other stuff. So my comment was dead wrong. I'm sorry for assuming that facebook ever regarded its users as anything other than "dumb fucks" that they could track as they please.

gabaix 6y ago

Slide 5 “The College Addiction” talks about the addictive nature of Facebook. Using the word addiction must have been a sound sales pitch in the early days. An expression that has quickly been replaced by technical terms like ‘engagement’ and ‘retention’.

smichel17 6y ago
> Slide 5 “The College Addiction” talks about the addictive nature of Facebook. > Using the word addiction must have been a sound sales pitch in the early days. An expression that has quickly been replaced by technical terms like ‘engagement’ and ‘retention’. > Using the word addiction must have been a sound sales pitch in the early days. Yes, it used to be a positive thing, eg, "So good/fun you'll get addicted". I haven't thought about addictinggames.com for maybe a decade but it seems like they're still around.

noncoml 6y ago

They should be forced to display this in their sign up page. And with bold letters: "Be warned: We are trying to sell target ads based on your sensitive personal information such as, but not limited to: Sex Sexual Orientation Relationship status Income Education level "

jaywalk 6y ago
Maybe I'm weird, but I don't mind ads being targeted to me based on any info that I choose to make publicly available. If I have to see ads, at least give me relevant ones. I know Facebook goes well beyond that into some pretty creepy territory, but that's not what I'm talking about.
- eberkund 6y ago
  Most of the info is not publicly available but collected by inferring information about based on the pages you visit, who you talk and which other users you associate with.
  - heromal 6y ago
    That's... Public info.
    - Fezzik 6y ago
      I think that is in reference to Facebook mining your DMs and web searches, neither of which are viewable to your FB friends or other internet users at large. FB accesses any and everything they can regarding your browsing behavior and ends up with far more data about a user than what is displayed publicly on the user’s public profile.
- pwdisswordfish2 6y ago
  You are not the first to react with this cognitive dissonance. What if you don't have to see ads? Your reasoning depends on a presupposition that has been sold to you by Facebook and the tech industry that survives on ad spend. If you read the terms on the Facebook website it says, paraphrasing, "Facebook shall always remain free". It is not free of course, for its customers. The rationale Facebook offers for why it muct be free is something like "it must be free so Facebook can be available to people in poorer countries as a means of communication". Eeven if that were a reason, it is not a rationale why it must be free for Americans. The truth is actually that you are not Facebook's customer, unless you are buying ads or promotions. They can only charge customers. In order to lure in subjects (particpants) for the customers to advertise to, Facebook creates a website and gives participants their own pages where they can share photos, etc. and communicate with each other. Even particpants in clinical trials or other research studies get paid. Facebook should be paying you for being part of their experiment.

dang 6y ago

Discussed at the time (of the article): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4408304 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4408304

newswasboring 6y ago
The top comment there[1] describe use of ad in such a wholesome way that I almost cried. Don't even know why it effected me so much. Is this what facebook ads should have been? People advertising to each other rather than companies advertising to people? Another question which poped in my head is would this lead to more or less data gathering? To target in such a hyper localized way can either be done with a lot of info or in a less intrusive way by just looking at the buyer's social graph. [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4408747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4408747

noelrock 6y ago

I realise I’m probably not in a majority here on this one but: I’m not offended or too bothered by being targeted by ads on Facebook. What I am offended by however is how poor the targeted ads are on Facebook. I don’t think I’ve ever bought anything based on one or even been tempted to.

rawoke083600 6y ago
This ! Looking in from the other side..Im usually appalled at how bad their advertising is from an advertisers point of view. I tried to target ppl for 'broadband options', Thus one might expect the lead to have a house(not own just a roof over his head) , He might liked netflix and streaming and certain modern games. The amount of basically 'homeless ppl' liking the ad is amazing ! Like the bulk genuinely just look like fake profiles ! Not