5 ms·

The Internet Archive does great work and please support them if you can[1]. Still, they are a single point of failure[2] and if they should falter one day it wi

The Internet Archive does great work and please support them if you can[1]. Still, they are a single point of failure[2] and if they should falter one day it will be a big loss. What we really need - in my opinion - is a second mainstay - an archive of the archive so to speak. [1] https://archive.org/donate/ https://archive.org/donate/ [2] Yes, I know about archive.today (formerly archive.is) but their extent is no way comparable to archive.org. Also, they don't archive pages from archive.org.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
Library Genesis serves as an unofficial alternative to Internet Archive' Open Library, with no lending controls and copyright restrictions (as they operate outside of US jurisdiction and make no attempt to adhere to copyright law, similar to SciHub). To your point, the Internet Archive most definitely needs to operate in a distributed, global fashion to prevent a single country from causing a loss of cultural data because of political winds or profits being put first. Mirror the whole thing on multiple continents.
- tosers4 6y ago
  Isn't SciHub just a rich "client" for LibGen?
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    Implementation detail I gloss over for the audience.
    - 411111111111111 6y ago
      Would you call Netflix a rich client for s3 though? I think there is value in the destinction if it's only used as a storage backend, but actually gets the media through different sources.
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        No, I'd call Netflix a rich client for Netflix's OpenConnect appliance network. To be clear, I have a deep appreciation for SciHub and LibGen, I just don't have the energy to dive in depth in this forum.
        411111111111111 6y ago
        I thought the openconnect network was basically just a cache which tries to serve popular media directly from the providers? They didn't have enough storage for their full library on the appliances previously. So that'd be like a caching proxy in front of the service Maybe that changed with how tiny their library became over the years. (Edit:it didn't change. That's what it is.)
  - notriddle 6y ago
    SciHub is a web service that downloads papers on demand. In addition to serving the paper up, they also send a backup to LibGen, making LibGen's scientific paper section an archive of SciHub.
mellosouls 6y ago
There are plenty of digital preservation initiatives around the world, many (most?) inspired by the Internet Archive, including various national libraries. The Internet Archive is a precious initiative and by far the most well known in its field, but it is not a "single point of failure".
- nikisweeting 6y ago
  Lots listed here: https://github.com/pirate/ArchiveBox/wiki/Web-Archiving-Community https://github.com/pirate/ArchiveBox/wiki/Web-Archiving-Comm...
Shank 6y ago
Archive.is/Archive.today is currently embroiled in a petty battle against CloudFlare DNS users, which is, imho, contrary to the spirit of an "archive" that is supposed to serve as a backup for things. I would rather support essentially any other service than one that actively tampers with DNS resolution for petty reasons. https://community.cloudflare.com/t/1-1-1-1-does-not-resolve-archive-is/28059 https://community.cloudflare.com/t/1-1-1-1-does-not-resolve-...
- cornishpixels 6y ago
  A "petty battle against CloudFlare DNS users"? No. They require a standardized DNS extension in order for their services to operate properly, and CloudFlare is waging a petty battle against the standard.
  - a1369209993 6y ago
    A "extension" is by definition something they do not require, since otherwise DNS clients written before that extension would not be able to interoperate with them. That's what makes it a "extension" rather than a unconsionable violation of backwards compatiblity. And that particular extension exists solely as means for DNS proxies to violate the privacy of their users by leaking client identity data to upstream DNS servers. There are several reasons why Cloudflare is evil and needs to die (especially ReCaptcha and associated attacks on TOR), but archive.is is firmly in the wrong on this particular point.
- Groxx 6y ago
  Is this relevant to archive.org at all? It doesn't seem to be affiliated in any way.
flowersjeff 6y ago
Agreed all around. The sooner we can put this data/historical records atop decentralized solutions, the better.
foobiekr 6y ago
1. One Time 2. $500 3. Nothing in terms of payment is clickable. I disabled ublock origin so it's something else. note: it works in Firefox, not Chrome. YMMV.
nikisweeting 6y ago
My approach is to try and archive things locally, and then rehost them via ipfs/my own file servers. I've also listed many other projects that do related things in the ArchiveBox wiki: https://github.com/pirate/ArchiveBox/wiki/Web-Archiving-Community#Web-Archiving-Projects https://github.com/pirate/ArchiveBox/wiki/Web-Archiving-Comm...

toomuchtodo 6y ago

Library Genesis serves as an unofficial alternative to Internet Archive' Open Library, with no lending controls and copyright restrictions (as they operate outside of US jurisdiction and make no attempt to adhere to copyright law, similar to SciHub). To your point, the Internet Archive most definitely needs to operate in a distributed, global fashion to prevent a single country from causing a loss of cultural data because of political winds or profits being put first. Mirror the whole thing on multiple continents.

tosers4 6y ago
Isn't SciHub just a rich "client" for LibGen?
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  Implementation detail I gloss over for the audience.
  - 411111111111111 6y ago
    Would you call Netflix a rich client for s3 though? I think there is value in the destinction if it's only used as a storage backend, but actually gets the media through different sources.
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      No, I'd call Netflix a rich client for Netflix's OpenConnect appliance network. To be clear, I have a deep appreciation for SciHub and LibGen, I just don't have the energy to dive in depth in this forum.
      - 411111111111111 6y ago
        I thought the openconnect network was basically just a cache which tries to serve popular media directly from the providers? They didn't have enough storage for their full library on the appliances previously. So that'd be like a caching proxy in front of the service Maybe that changed with how tiny their library became over the years. (Edit:it didn't change. That's what it is.)
- notriddle 6y ago
  SciHub is a web service that downloads papers on demand. In addition to serving the paper up, they also send a backup to LibGen, making LibGen's scientific paper section an archive of SciHub.

mellosouls 6y ago

There are plenty of digital preservation initiatives around the world, many (most?) inspired by the Internet Archive, including various national libraries. The Internet Archive is a precious initiative and by far the most well known in its field, but it is not a "single point of failure".

nikisweeting 6y ago
Lots listed here: https://github.com/pirate/ArchiveBox/wiki/Web-Archiving-Community https://github.com/pirate/ArchiveBox/wiki/Web-Archiving-Comm...

Shank 6y ago

Archive.is/Archive.today is currently embroiled in a petty battle against CloudFlare DNS users, which is, imho, contrary to the spirit of an "archive" that is supposed to serve as a backup for things. I would rather support essentially any other service than one that actively tampers with DNS resolution for petty reasons. https://community.cloudflare.com/t/1-1-1-1-does-not-resolve-archive-is/28059 https://community.cloudflare.com/t/1-1-1-1-does-not-resolve-...

cornishpixels 6y ago
A "petty battle against CloudFlare DNS users"? No. They require a standardized DNS extension in order for their services to operate properly, and CloudFlare is waging a petty battle against the standard.
- a1369209993 6y ago
  A "extension" is by definition something they do not require, since otherwise DNS clients written before that extension would not be able to interoperate with them. That's what makes it a "extension" rather than a unconsionable violation of backwards compatiblity. And that particular extension exists solely as means for DNS proxies to violate the privacy of their users by leaking client identity data to upstream DNS servers. There are several reasons why Cloudflare is evil and needs to die (especially ReCaptcha and associated attacks on TOR), but archive.is is firmly in the wrong on this particular point.
Groxx 6y ago
Is this relevant to archive.org at all? It doesn't seem to be affiliated in any way.

flowersjeff 6y ago

Agreed all around. The sooner we can put this data/historical records atop decentralized solutions, the better.

foobiekr 6y ago

1. One Time 2. $500 3. Nothing in terms of payment is clickable. I disabled ublock origin so it's something else. note: it works in Firefox, not Chrome. YMMV.

nikisweeting 6y ago

My approach is to try and archive things locally, and then rehost them via ipfs/my own file servers. I've also listed many other projects that do related things in the ArchiveBox wiki: https://github.com/pirate/ArchiveBox/wiki/Web-Archiving-Community#Web-Archiving-Projects https://github.com/pirate/ArchiveBox/wiki/Web-Archiving-Comm...