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I liked hearing George Lucas say that he wanted all the craft to look beaten up and used instead of shiny and new (long time ago far, far away) so as to focus o

I liked hearing George Lucas say that he wanted all the craft to look beaten up and used instead of shiny and new (long time ago far, far away) so as to focus on the human experience instead of the tech itself.

jcims 6y ago
That’s one of my favorite aspects of seeing Falcon 9 boosters coming back to port. Dirty as hell, maybe canted a wee bit. Looks like they went through something. It will be interesting to see what the methane-fueled rockets look like when they come back. I’m guessing a lot less sooty. If SpaceX’s Starship keeps some exposed stainless i hope it gets a little of that exhaust pipe purple patina going. That would be awesome.
- usrusr 6y ago
  I doubt that they could or would dare to reuse one onscrubbed, but it could still be fun to put one one the ramp painted in that used look. Perhaps one side gleaming white, the other "this is not my first rodeo"?
- bluedino 6y ago
  As a kid, I was disappointed in how dirty the space shuttle was on visit to Cape Canaveral. In young mind I expected this beautiful, gleaming massiv white shuttle. Instead, the real shuttle was dirty, dingy, all the tiles and body panels looked like they were randomly replaced, which makes sense as it had years and years of use.
dsr_ 6y ago
Lucas was telling a story, so he made the symbols look like things that his audience already knew: one and two-person fighter planes, small tramp freighters, giant naval warships. The good guys and the bad guys get distinct visual styles for their fighters so you can tell them apart. The bad guys have all the big warships, and they have bridges as command centers up high over the main body, batteries of guns that look like WWII battleship's guns, anti-fighter guns that recoil like an antiaircraft cannon, and send out swarms of fighters like aircraft carriers. The rebels have hangars in jungle and snow bases that would have been perfectly reasonable in a WWII movie. Star Trek developed a different aesthetic, starting with a flying saucer and then trying to justify it in various ways.
- sandworm101 6y ago
  Yup. The evil empire had big carriers and giant battleships. The good guys had their fighters hidden in caves. It is a WWII metaphor. Abrams continues this subversion in the opening of Episode VII: The bad guys come at night in their helicopters to search a desert community for rebel terrorists. Credit where credit is due for sneaking that theme into an otherwise apolitical film. (And king bad guy carries a flaming cross.)
- PeterCorless 6y ago
  Star Trek was telling stories of the Cold War in space.
  - usrusr 6y ago
    And many other stories in space entirely unrelated to the cold war. There really aren't that many TOS episodes that have Klingons in them.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      Klingons... and in TNG, at some points the role was taken over by the Romulans. TNG's "The Drumhead" is essentially about McCarthy's hearings. I still like it.
- sradman 6y ago
  I wonder if the hangars in the jungle came from the script or from the memories of someone who experienced the view from Temple IV at Tikal. I had the surreal experience of standing atop Temple IV and suddenly recognizing this was the camera location of Star Wars rebel base landing scene while being enveloped by the smells and sounds above the rain forest canopy, especially the cacophony from the howler monkeys. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tikal https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tikal
- prideout 6y ago
  Whenever there is a flotilla of ships in Star Trek, they seem to always arrange themselves into a two-dimensional plane and orient themselves according to their artificial gravity. This evokes ships at sea. Starfleet seems to use a naval ranking, and officers use words like "hail", "heave to", "away team", and "bearing". The navigation terminology in Star Trek sees to be related to the galactic plane, which again evokes the surface of the sea. The drive section of the Enterprise looks like the keel of a boat to me, and her nacelles look like the hulls of a catamaran. Roddenberry loved the Hornblower books and I'm sure he was influenced by naval aesthetics.
rjsw 6y ago
Dark Star started the dirty spaceship look, Dan O'Bannon worked on Star Wars too before writing the screenplay for Alien.
- usrusr 6y ago
  The entire Alien movie is basically an extended (and, ahem, perhaps slightly darker?) remake of the Pinback vs the beach ball creature scene. My favorite piece of movie trivia. I wonder if anyone stumbled into the theatrical release of Alien knowing about that connection? Regarding "used space", I'd say that the trend was already present in Silent Running (1972) which happens to link both the clinically clean 2001 and dirty Star Wars in terms of FX crew.
sandworm101 6y ago
Science Fiction v. Space Opera (from Soap Opera) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera Star Trek is science fiction. It is clean, high-minded and with a plot driven by futuristic technologies and what they might mean for us. Science fiction is at least somewhat predictive. Star Wars is space opera, a soap opera set in space. The plot is driven by family squabbles and surprise revelations (ie Luke's sister/father etc). The standards of morality are subverted by the reality of the family drama. If one removes the special effects and fight scenes, Star Wars is almost daytime TV. All it needs is a good coma fantasy. Another clue from Lucas: "A long time ago in a galaxy far far away." That is code for "This isn't science fiction. It isn't about a possible future. It isn't about what our children's lives might be like. Magic is possible. Just enjoy the show."
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  I have always wondered what Han was dreaming while frozen in carbonite for 6 months.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  Ahem. Sorry Trekkies, but NO! Star Trek is different how exactly? Domestic problems, old enemies longing for revenge, Tech the tech with the tech in order to tech the tech in the tech tech... For me it's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindenstra%C3%9Fe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindenstra%C3%9Fe in space, or 'Raumschiff Entenscheiss' (Spaceship Duck Shit because Enterprise rhymes with Entenscheiss) Doesn't matter which tv-series or theatrical movie, always the same, quack quack, tech the tech the with the tech to tech the tech tech bla bla bla. edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAUIHBAxbXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAUIHBAxbXY courtesy of https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinnlos_im_Weltraum https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinnlos_im_Weltraum
  - sandworm101 6y ago
    Ok, the very very simple version: Science fiction is set in the future. Star Trek is deliberately set in the future. Star Wars is deliberately set in the past ("A long time ago") and therefore is something other than science fiction.

jcims 6y ago

That’s one of my favorite aspects of seeing Falcon 9 boosters coming back to port. Dirty as hell, maybe canted a wee bit. Looks like they went through something. It will be interesting to see what the methane-fueled rockets look like when they come back. I’m guessing a lot less sooty. If SpaceX’s Starship keeps some exposed stainless i hope it gets a little of that exhaust pipe purple patina going. That would be awesome.

usrusr 6y ago
I doubt that they could or would dare to reuse one onscrubbed, but it could still be fun to put one one the ramp painted in that used look. Perhaps one side gleaming white, the other "this is not my first rodeo"?
bluedino 6y ago
As a kid, I was disappointed in how dirty the space shuttle was on visit to Cape Canaveral. In young mind I expected this beautiful, gleaming massiv white shuttle. Instead, the real shuttle was dirty, dingy, all the tiles and body panels looked like they were randomly replaced, which makes sense as it had years and years of use.

dsr_ 6y ago

Lucas was telling a story, so he made the symbols look like things that his audience already knew: one and two-person fighter planes, small tramp freighters, giant naval warships. The good guys and the bad guys get distinct visual styles for their fighters so you can tell them apart. The bad guys have all the big warships, and they have bridges as command centers up high over the main body, batteries of guns that look like WWII battleship's guns, anti-fighter guns that recoil like an antiaircraft cannon, and send out swarms of fighters like aircraft carriers. The rebels have hangars in jungle and snow bases that would have been perfectly reasonable in a WWII movie. Star Trek developed a different aesthetic, starting with a flying saucer and then trying to justify it in various ways.

sandworm101 6y ago
Yup. The evil empire had big carriers and giant battleships. The good guys had their fighters hidden in caves. It is a WWII metaphor. Abrams continues this subversion in the opening of Episode VII: The bad guys come at night in their helicopters to search a desert community for rebel terrorists. Credit where credit is due for sneaking that theme into an otherwise apolitical film. (And king bad guy carries a flaming cross.)
PeterCorless 6y ago
Star Trek was telling stories of the Cold War in space.
- usrusr 6y ago
  And many other stories in space entirely unrelated to the cold war. There really aren't that many TOS episodes that have Klingons in them.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    Klingons... and in TNG, at some points the role was taken over by the Romulans. TNG's "The Drumhead" is essentially about McCarthy's hearings. I still like it.
sradman 6y ago
I wonder if the hangars in the jungle came from the script or from the memories of someone who experienced the view from Temple IV at Tikal. I had the surreal experience of standing atop Temple IV and suddenly recognizing this was the camera location of Star Wars rebel base landing scene while being enveloped by the smells and sounds above the rain forest canopy, especially the cacophony from the howler monkeys. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tikal https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tikal
prideout 6y ago
Whenever there is a flotilla of ships in Star Trek, they seem to always arrange themselves into a two-dimensional plane and orient themselves according to their artificial gravity. This evokes ships at sea. Starfleet seems to use a naval ranking, and officers use words like "hail", "heave to", "away team", and "bearing". The navigation terminology in Star Trek sees to be related to the galactic plane, which again evokes the surface of the sea. The drive section of the Enterprise looks like the keel of a boat to me, and her nacelles look like the hulls of a catamaran. Roddenberry loved the Hornblower books and I'm sure he was influenced by naval aesthetics.

rjsw 6y ago

Dark Star started the dirty spaceship look, Dan O'Bannon worked on Star Wars too before writing the screenplay for Alien.

usrusr 6y ago
The entire Alien movie is basically an extended (and, ahem, perhaps slightly darker?) remake of the Pinback vs the beach ball creature scene. My favorite piece of movie trivia. I wonder if anyone stumbled into the theatrical release of Alien knowing about that connection? Regarding "used space", I'd say that the trend was already present in Silent Running (1972) which happens to link both the clinically clean 2001 and dirty Star Wars in terms of FX crew.

sandworm101 6y ago

Science Fiction v. Space Opera (from Soap Opera) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera Star Trek is science fiction. It is clean, high-minded and with a plot driven by futuristic technologies and what they might mean for us. Science fiction is at least somewhat predictive. Star Wars is space opera, a soap opera set in space. The plot is driven by family squabbles and surprise revelations (ie Luke's sister/father etc). The standards of morality are subverted by the reality of the family drama. If one removes the special effects and fight scenes, Star Wars is almost daytime TV. All it needs is a good coma fantasy. Another clue from Lucas: "A long time ago in a galaxy far far away." That is code for "This isn't science fiction. It isn't about a possible future. It isn't about what our children's lives might be like. Magic is possible. Just enjoy the show."

oh_sigh 6y ago
I have always wondered what Han was dreaming while frozen in carbonite for 6 months.
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
Ahem. Sorry Trekkies, but NO! Star Trek is different how exactly? Domestic problems, old enemies longing for revenge, Tech the tech with the tech in order to tech the tech in the tech tech... For me it's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindenstra%C3%9Fe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindenstra%C3%9Fe in space, or 'Raumschiff Entenscheiss' (Spaceship Duck Shit because Enterprise rhymes with Entenscheiss) Doesn't matter which tv-series or theatrical movie, always the same, quack quack, tech the tech the with the tech to tech the tech tech bla bla bla. edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAUIHBAxbXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAUIHBAxbXY courtesy of https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinnlos_im_Weltraum https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinnlos_im_Weltraum
- sandworm101 6y ago
  Ok, the very very simple version: Science fiction is set in the future. Star Trek is deliberately set in the future. Star Wars is deliberately set in the past ("A long time ago") and therefore is something other than science fiction.