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The Aesthetics of Science Fiction Spaceship Design (2010)
- 8bitsrule 6y agoI was surprised not to see any of Bonestell designs seen in the books by Willy Ley (with some ideas of von Braun). True, many were designed for landing on planets with atmospheres - a rather practical bent. These illustrations helped fire imaginations that got us off this noble rock the first time. Here are several hundred of them (or like them) for anyone who might not have been exposed yet. https://www.flickr.com/groups/midcenturyspaceillustration/pool/ https://www.flickr.com/groups/midcenturyspaceillustration/po...
- moneytide1 6y agoI liked hearing George Lucas say that he wanted all the craft to look beaten up and used instead of shiny and new (long time ago far, far away) so as to focus on the human experience instead of the tech itself.
- jcims 6y agoThat’s one of my favorite aspects of seeing Falcon 9 boosters coming back to port. Dirty as hell, maybe canted a wee bit. Looks like they went through something. It will be interesting to see what the methane-fueled rockets look like when they come back. I’m guessing a lot less sooty. If SpaceX’s Starship keeps some exposed stainless i hope it gets a little of that exhaust pipe purple patina going. That would be awesome.
- usrusr 6y agoI doubt that they could or would dare to reuse one onscrubbed, but it could still be fun to put one one the ramp painted in that used look. Perhaps one side gleaming white, the other "this is not my first rodeo"?
- bluedino 6y agoAs a kid, I was disappointed in how dirty the space shuttle was on visit to Cape Canaveral. In young mind I expected this beautiful, gleaming massiv white shuttle. Instead, the real shuttle was dirty, dingy, all the tiles and body panels looked like they were randomly replaced, which makes sense as it had years and years of use.
- dsr_ 6y agoLucas was telling a story, so he made the symbols look like things that his audience already knew: one and two-person fighter planes, small tramp freighters, giant naval warships. The good guys and the bad guys get distinct visual styles for their fighters so you can tell them apart. The bad guys have all the big warships, and they have bridges as command centers up high over the main body, batteries of guns that look like WWII battleship's guns, anti-fighter guns that recoil like an antiaircraft cannon, and send out swarms of fighters like aircraft carriers. The rebels have hangars in jungle and snow bases that would have been perfectly reasonable in a WWII movie. Star Trek developed a different aesthetic, starting with a flying saucer and then trying to justify it in various ways.
- sandworm101 6y agoYup. The evil empire had big carriers and giant battleships. The good guys had their fighters hidden in caves. It is a WWII metaphor. Abrams continues this subversion in the opening of Episode VII: The bad guys come at night in their helicopters to search a desert community for rebel terrorists. Credit where credit is due for sneaking that theme into an otherwise apolitical film. (And king bad guy carries a flaming cross.)
- PeterCorless 6y agoStar Trek was telling stories of the Cold War in space.
- usrusr 6y agoAnd many other stories in space entirely unrelated to the cold war. There really aren't that many TOS episodes that have Klingons in them.
- TeMPOraL 6y agoKlingons... and in TNG, at some points the role was taken over by the Romulans. TNG's "The Drumhead" is essentially about McCarthy's hearings. I still like it.
- 6y ago
- rjsw 6y agoDark Star started the dirty spaceship look, Dan O'Bannon worked on Star Wars too before writing the screenplay for Alien.
- usrusr 6y agoThe entire Alien movie is basically an extended (and, ahem, perhaps slightly darker?) remake of the Pinback vs the beach ball creature scene. My favorite piece of movie trivia. I wonder if anyone stumbled into the theatrical release of Alien knowing about that connection? Regarding "used space", I'd say that the trend was already present in Silent Running (1972) which happens to link both the clinically clean 2001 and dirty Star Wars in terms of FX crew.
- sandworm101 6y agoScience Fiction v. Space Opera (from Soap Opera) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera Star Trek is science fiction. It is clean, high-minded and with a plot driven by futuristic technologies and what they might mean for us. Science fiction is at least somewhat predictive. Star Wars is space opera, a soap opera set in space. The plot is driven by family squabbles and surprise revelations (ie Luke's sister/father etc). The standards of morality are subverted by the reality of the family drama. If one removes the special effects and fight scenes, Star Wars is almost daytime TV. All it needs is a good coma fantasy. Another clue from Lucas: "A long time ago in a galaxy far far away." That is code for "This isn't science fiction. It isn't about a possible future. It isn't about what our children's lives might be like. Magic is possible. Just enjoy the show."
- oh_sigh 6y agoI have always wondered what Han was dreaming while frozen in carbonite for 6 months.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y agoAhem. Sorry Trekkies, but NO! Star Trek is different how exactly? Domestic problems, old enemies longing for revenge, Tech the tech with the tech in order to tech the tech in the tech tech... For me it's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindenstra%C3%9Fe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindenstra%C3%9Fe in space, or 'Raumschiff Entenscheiss' (Spaceship Duck Shit because Enterprise rhymes with Entenscheiss) Doesn't matter which tv-series or theatrical movie, always the same, quack quack, tech the tech the with the tech to tech the tech tech bla bla bla. edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAUIHBAxbXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAUIHBAxbXY courtesy of https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinnlos_im_Weltraum https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinnlos_im_Weltraum
- sandworm101 6y agoOk, the very very simple version: Science fiction is set in the future. Star Trek is deliberately set in the future. Star Wars is deliberately set in the past ("A long time ago") and therefore is something other than science fiction.
- caiobegotti 6y agoI really like the simple yet useful flowchart to estimate the origins of a given spaceship (figure 4.10 in the PDF).
- CobrastanJorji 6y agoThis was an interesting read. Are example results of the procedural generation posted somewhere?
- rdlw 6y agoThere are some screenshots on pp. 72-75 of surface details on a trench and a cube.
- thecupisblue 6y agoYou might like this link from yesterday. https://github.com/a1studmuffin/SpaceshipGenerator https://github.com/a1studmuffin/SpaceshipGenerator
- Sharlin 6y agoThose extreme examples have clearly adopted Shadow technology.
- PeterCorless 6y agoWhole thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3830322#post475604649 https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=38...
- usrusr 6y agoTo readers who wonder how this could possibly be a thesis in computer science: I haven't checked, but it would perfectly make sense in the context of a larger project about generative design. You need to understand the cultural conventions before you can fulfill them in code. Understanding the application domain is a part of every software project. Cultural research as part of a software project is no different from a physicist writing sensor readout code as their thesis as part of a larger experiment group (which, from what I have glimpsed, seems to be more norm than exception with physicists these days)
- elf25 6y agoprob for phd. my HS guidance counselor let me down by not telling me that this kind of BS would ever count for something. Good for this dudette.
- je42 6y agoFantastic work ! Too bad Stargates spaceship-designs were not reviewed
- carapace 6y agoAges ago my dad pointed out to me that spaceships will be spherical. ;-)
- RalfWausE 6y agoOnly if its found on the moon by some guy called Perry ;-)
- usrusr 6y agoUnion Dropship, it's a quite well published design actually but never made it into television. IIRC this was also quite clearly stated in the Traveller rules, and then universally broken in all the lore.
- kps 6y agoGeneral Products No. 4 hull
- rozab 6y agohttps://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Core_ship/Legends https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Core_ship/Legends Wish wikia hadn't gone evilmode
- TeMPOraL 6y agoOh, the giant watermelon they cut up with ground-based lasers in Clone Wars! For some reason, it's one of the two scenes I most remember from there (the other one was this weird spinny droido-tank I can't find a screenshot of now).
- chadcmulligan 6y agoDepends on the drive system? Warp drive needs nacelles in Star Trek best results were tear drop shaped in the lensman for the inertialess drive powered low G bits of things stuck together will do - ISS
- keiferski 6y agoThe Fountain was really interesting in this regard, as it had the main character floating in a giant orb surrounding the Tree of Life. Completely different from the typical spaceship aesthetic. IIRC the space background was all microphotography, not CGI. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=the+fountain+movie+space+ship&t=osx&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=the+fountain+movie+space+ship&t=os... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdmPrsKV0Kg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdmPrsKV0Kg
- bovermyer 6y agoToo bad the starships of the Honorverse weren't included in this. They have... interesting designs.
- bloopernova 6y agoYes, they look a little... phallic? I enjoyed the lore surrounding the design though, how the gravity wave tech is used to create shields that are unfortunately less strong on the sides of the ship. This of course leads to great Horatio Hornblower style naval broadside battles. And I really dig the driven-by-war improvements in technology, specifically missiles. A similar space-navy-sci-fi series is the Lost Fleet series by Jack Campbell (pen name of John G Hemry, retired US Navy). First book is called Dauntless, and I highly, seriously highly recommend everyone read the whole series: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/112292.Dauntless https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/112292.Dauntless
- hawski 6y agoInteresting. Link for the lazy: https://www.google.com/search?q=Honorverse&client=firefox-b-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZtbLSqOHpAhUjxosKHS-WBs4Q_AUoAXoECBUQAw&biw=1440&bih=803&dpr=2#imgrc=uH6PMv2ki7dAXM https://www.google.com/search?q=Honorverse&client=firefox-b-... They look like merge between a capsule and a dumbbell. Could you describe which direction does they generally move. I see that the weapons array seem to be on a longer side. What function do the wider parts on ends are for, propulsion?
- bovermyer 6y agoThese ships move longways, with the bulbous ends in front and back. However, they maneuver differently in battle, as their armaments are primarily on their sides, akin to 18th century frigates and galleons. The Warshawski sails are a fascinating bit of tech. You can read about them here: https://honorverse.fandom.com/wiki/Warshawski_sail https://honorverse.fandom.com/wiki/Warshawski_sail
- NortySpock 6y agoThe ship moves to the left in this image, longways. The ghostly fields surrounding the ship both provide reactionless drive and protect the ship from most incoming laser and missile fire. Forcefields of course work by writers fiat, but in the stories it works out that a "down the throat" or "up the tailpipe" missile shot is a killshot. This has the effect of making "crossing the T" as in olden sailing days (giving a broadside to the nose) is still effective in 3D space combat. https://images.app.goo.gl/PMn9wgpV682Xa3fM7 https://images.app.goo.gl/PMn9wgpV682Xa3fM7
- drrrek 6y agoFantastically stupid. Hard to top the total bullshit artistry at work here. Nothing is accomplished with a paper like this. No one benefits from the production of a 150+ pages of babble like this. The only people that can tell you anything about fictitious space ships are the people that made them. This is just some asshole applying post-hoc rationalization to trash spewed from a Hollywood organelle. None of this is genuine analysis, but fluff scattered across a PDF.
- Animats 6y ago(2010)
- dang 6y agoAdded. Thanks!
- modzu 6y agoPosting because I don't see the word Enterprise anywhere in this thread!
- bloopernova 6y agoThis was written in 2010, so it's not including my favourite ship designs, those of The Expanse. Decks stacked one on top of each other, like floors in a skyscraper. Because gravity is provided by the drive acceleration. https://i.imgur.com/f6YGM8N.jpg https://i.imgur.com/f6YGM8N.jpg
- usrusr 6y agoThe physical world building is so much better than everything else on TV that I almost hated the plot because I would have very much enjoyed ten seasons of just the Roci freelancing around in the solar system.
- the_af 6y agoSame! Though I did love the plot too, but every scene with the Roci or other ships maneuvering, fighting or even in a tense standoff was simply superb. The damage caused during ship combat was also pretty interesting. People die not in massive explosions (though there's that, too) but simply as fragments and projectiles perforate the ship's hull and their bodies. Instead of the usual "sparks flying from consoles" like in Star Trek, a hit in the Expanse means you have a kinetic projectile punching through the wall and taking someone's head off.
- EdwardDiego 6y agoLoved the shots of PDW rounds silently penetrating the interior of the Roci and then leaving just as silently via the other wall as they'd removed the atmosphere to avoid pressure blowouts in the event of a puncture.
- bloopernova 6y agoIn the latest season (so spoilers for those who haven't seen it) . . . One of the PDCs on the Rocinante is used while the ship is landed on a planet with atmosphere. Those "little" guns that go brrrrrrt in space are large cannons in atmosphere that go BOOM BOOM BOOM. Just one PDC used while on a planet is like an artillery barrage being called down on one person.
- atombender 6y agoThis is a lovely paper. However, I was disappointed to not see any mentions of Iain M. Banks's Culture universe, which means it misses out on what I think is the most novel approach to spaceship design in literature. First, The Culture's spaceships are enormous. The largest type we encounter, the General Systems Vehicle, is 200 km long and can house up to 6 billion people; while these serve as habitats for a civilian population, these are still spaceships, capable of moving at great speed. Secondly, the ships have no physical hull. Instead, their structure is maintained by field manipulation. Banks doesn't go deeper into how this works, but it's clear The Culture has technology to manipulate physical reality similar to classic science fiction "force fields" that allows ships to maintain an atmosphere and protect against physical damage. Notably, in several books, the ships modify both their interior and exterior structure while traveling in order to optimize themselves for some purpose. Thirdly, an important part of The Culture is that the ships are, in a sense, alive. The Minds, which are the AIs that control them are largely inseparable from the ships they inhabit. Clearly we've had AI-controlled ships before (HAL, Alien's Mother, and so on), but these have always been subservient to humans. With The Culture, a human boarding a ship is a guest of the Mind, and ships don't have captains or comamnders. The only other author I know about who has done anything similar is Anne Leckie.
- satori99 6y ago> The Culture has technology to manipulate physical reality similar to classic science fiction "force fields" that allows ships to maintain an atmosphere and protect against physical damage. In The Player of Games, A GSV explains to the human protagonist, that it can use its force field projection abilities to protect the human from all physical threats -- while orbiting a planet in a different solar system. The GSV's are more like demi-gods than AI starships.
- minitoar 6y agoIn the Murderbot series the ships are similar in that the AI is apparently inseparable form the ship, although they are more like eager-to-please pets or children. IIRC The Minds have their own agendas and moral compass.
- 6y ago
- RocketSyntax 6y agoDecision tree on 41 is great
- DonHopkins 6y agoFigure A.96: Futurama’s Planet Express has a simple, retro design. Note that the ship, like many of the 1999 show’s characters, has a distinctive overbite.
- kurlberg 6y agoAs a kid I loved reading "Great Space Battles" and "Spacecraft, 2000-2100 A.D.: Terran Trade Authority Handbook", by Stewart Cowley, from the late 70s. My impression is that the art (very beautiful airbrush(?) space ship pictures) inspired the stories than the other way around.
- kurlberg 6y agoAwesome: Scott Manley has a youtube video about it (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8abMJhmvss. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8abMJhmvss.) Heh, some of it did not age so well: 2012: work starts on Mars station. Elon, hurry up! :-)
- TeMPOraL 6y agoReminds me of Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design[0]: > 30. (von Tiesenhausen's Law of Engineering Design) If you want to have a maximum effect on the design of a new engineering system, learn to draw. Engineers always wind up designing the vehicle to look like the initial artist's concept. -- [0] - https://spacecraft.ssl.umd.edu/akins_laws.html https://spacecraft.ssl.umd.edu/akins_laws.html
- davidw 6y agoI had lots of space books as a kid... there's a certain aesthetic from the late 1970ies that makes me nostalgic. I wonder if there's a name for it or a collection of some of those book covers and art.
- barbecue_sauce 6y agoPossibly contained within "cassette futurism".
- EdwardDiego 6y agoThe art for the book OP mentioned was, IIRC, by a particular British artist. One sec... he was very prolific in the late 70s / 80s. Chris Foss: https://www.chrisfossart.com https://www.chrisfossart.com
- cryptoquick 6y agoWow, this is incredibly comprehensive! A great resource, should I ever need it. And even without any obvious present utility, the fact that someone did all this is just fascinating in its own right. I can only imagine how this must be mandatory reading material for the Star Citizen devs.
- dang 6y agoSee also from 2018: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17899458 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17899458
- stuart78 6y agoI'll admit I didn't read the whole thing, but the flow chart on page 41 is fantastic. Worth skipping to.
- chadcmulligan 6y agoSo Ms Kinnear convinced her supervisor that a masters thesis on science fiction spaceship design was a good idea, thats the most impressive part imho :-)