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If you're in India (and I'd imagine most other developing countries), getting a degree is one of the most surefire methods of ensuring that you live a good life

If you're in India (and I'd imagine most other developing countries), getting a degree is one of the most surefire methods of ensuring that you live a good life. It's much less the case in Western countries, especially here in Australia, where tradespeople tend to earn on-par or more than white collar professionals.

JoeAltmaier 6y ago
Yes! Whenever I hear somebody complaining about the price of a plumber or other trade, I say "Yeah! Where do they get off, wanting to earn a living? Why can't they just live in a van down by the river like their parents?!" I'm perfectly happy to pay a competent trade for good work, at whatever rate gets me out of painting/plumbing/pumping sewage.
- toomanybeersies 6y ago
  I hate the attitude that tradespeople should get paid less than white collar professionals, it takes the same to finish an apprenticeship as a bachelors degree, it's skilled work just as much as computer programming or accounting or law (incidentally the only time I needed a lawyer I would've been better off representing myself, he was literally worse than useless). I pay my barber $35 for a 20 minute haircut, he certainly cuts my hair better than I ever could, and I write code better than he can. We all have our role in society. A large proportion of professionals are completely incapable of doing the work that tradespeople do, most people can't even replace a tap washer on their own, let alone replace the transmission in their car. It's conceited and elitist to think you're more valuable than somebody else just because you have the luxury of sitting in front of a computer screen all day. It's not even an intelligence thing (which I think shouldn't matter at all), plenty tradespeople are just as clever as programmers or accountants, they just don't want a job that keeps them cooped up in an office all day. Especially when it comes to trades like electricians or plumbers, where you're still diagnosing problems and creating solutions, a good tradie is worth their weight in gold.
  - zenlot 6y ago
    Completely agreed!
  - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
    Pay is defined by political and economic leverage, not by intelligence or by actual ability. Tradespeople aren't paid seven figures a year because they have very little political and economic leverage. Top-rank CEOs, and people working in corporate law and finance are, because they tend to accumulate both - although often from a place where they start with plenty. You can argue that this is neither fair nor justified, and I will agree with you. In fact I will argue that this is a fundamental failure which makes any political and economic system that lacks feedback loops to limit excesses of privilege inherently unstable. But it helps to be clear about how the system really works before criticising it. Cleverness is not the primary decider. Nor is skill. Earnings are set by leverage and perceived power, all the way down.
    - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
      The market determines price at that level, not some conspiracy. Agreed, nothing to do with fair. But something to do with, the decline in trade schools in America which limits supply.
screye 6y ago
Well, University in India also costs like $10k for the whole thing. Soo... the value proposition is quite different. This applies only in the case of the US, because university implies a $100k student loan.
- Miraste 6y ago
  University may cost 10% of US prices, but median income is even lower than 10% US.
  - screye 6y ago
    You are correct about the numbers in absolute, but this is one of those cases where the stats are lying. Once you go to university, it is relatively easy to get a job making around 2.5-4 lakh a year. The total cost of university stays under 4 lakhs for most people, which is an acceptable percentage of projected annual wage. It is also a lot easier to live under your means in India, where a single person can easily live under 1.5 lakhs/year. On the other hand, a university degree in the wrong major in the US can mean a $30k gig at Starbucks, with saving being nearly impossible and student debt worth $200k.

JoeAltmaier 6y ago

Yes! Whenever I hear somebody complaining about the price of a plumber or other trade, I say "Yeah! Where do they get off, wanting to earn a living? Why can't they just live in a van down by the river like their parents?!" I'm perfectly happy to pay a competent trade for good work, at whatever rate gets me out of painting/plumbing/pumping sewage.

toomanybeersies 6y ago
I hate the attitude that tradespeople should get paid less than white collar professionals, it takes the same to finish an apprenticeship as a bachelors degree, it's skilled work just as much as computer programming or accounting or law (incidentally the only time I needed a lawyer I would've been better off representing myself, he was literally worse than useless). I pay my barber $35 for a 20 minute haircut, he certainly cuts my hair better than I ever could, and I write code better than he can. We all have our role in society. A large proportion of professionals are completely incapable of doing the work that tradespeople do, most people can't even replace a tap washer on their own, let alone replace the transmission in their car. It's conceited and elitist to think you're more valuable than somebody else just because you have the luxury of sitting in front of a computer screen all day. It's not even an intelligence thing (which I think shouldn't matter at all), plenty tradespeople are just as clever as programmers or accountants, they just don't want a job that keeps them cooped up in an office all day. Especially when it comes to trades like electricians or plumbers, where you're still diagnosing problems and creating solutions, a good tradie is worth their weight in gold.
- zenlot 6y ago
  Completely agreed!
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  Pay is defined by political and economic leverage, not by intelligence or by actual ability. Tradespeople aren't paid seven figures a year because they have very little political and economic leverage. Top-rank CEOs, and people working in corporate law and finance are, because they tend to accumulate both - although often from a place where they start with plenty. You can argue that this is neither fair nor justified, and I will agree with you. In fact I will argue that this is a fundamental failure which makes any political and economic system that lacks feedback loops to limit excesses of privilege inherently unstable. But it helps to be clear about how the system really works before criticising it. Cleverness is not the primary decider. Nor is skill. Earnings are set by leverage and perceived power, all the way down.
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    The market determines price at that level, not some conspiracy. Agreed, nothing to do with fair. But something to do with, the decline in trade schools in America which limits supply.

screye 6y ago

Well, University in India also costs like $10k for the whole thing. Soo... the value proposition is quite different. This applies only in the case of the US, because university implies a $100k student loan.

Miraste 6y ago
University may cost 10% of US prices, but median income is even lower than 10% US.
- screye 6y ago
  You are correct about the numbers in absolute, but this is one of those cases where the stats are lying. Once you go to university, it is relatively easy to get a job making around 2.5-4 lakh a year. The total cost of university stays under 4 lakhs for most people, which is an acceptable percentage of projected annual wage. It is also a lot easier to live under your means in India, where a single person can easily live under 1.5 lakhs/year. On the other hand, a university degree in the wrong major in the US can mean a $30k gig at Starbucks, with saving being nearly impossible and student debt worth $200k.