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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc... If you lo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc... If you look at the rate per 10 Million people, we're right in-between Mexico and Bangladesh with 28.4 Germany is 1.3, UK is 0.5, Japan is 0.2 That tells me there's a problem that isn't solved by breaking the numbers into two columns of justified and non-justified.

ajsnigrutin 6y ago
But how many criminals in germany and UK shoot at the police officers? I think that this US number is also very different from the German/UK number.
- ajuc 6y ago
  This is another evidence USA system is insane and needs to change.
  - pyritefan 6y ago
    There are many, many other countries with very strict gun control laws. The US is arguably the only location on Earth where people have a somewhat unrestricted right to arm themselves. Should there not be any place in the world where people who believe in personally having the power to defend themselves against attackers and a tyrannical government are able to do so?
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  Maybe criminals in the US carry and use guns because they fear violence from the police? If you think the police are going to kill you either way, you might as well go out shooting! In the UK you know the police are going to respectfully arrest you and treat you well, so might as well give in rather than escalate it to a firefight. But generally I think it's crazy that the police in the US are armed. Most policing doesn't need lethal weaponry, and community officers shouldn't be armed. Leave guns to specialist units when required. I know Floyd wasn't killed with a gun, but I think disarming the police would be the right response and first step towards reducing police violence, as it de-escalates every interaction.
  - ajsnigrutin 6y ago
    You can do this in UK, where weapons look like this: https://twitter.com/mpsregentspark/status/974645778558980096 https://twitter.com/mpsregentspark/status/974645778558980096 But in places with criminals being heavily armed, having unarmed police, just makes the police more vulnerable.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      But my thesis is that the criminals are heavily armed because they know that the police are violent. If the police were less violent, the criminals may see less need to arm themselves. In the US a criminal needs to be ready to defend themselves to the death in any interaction with the police. In the UK, they don't.
      - ajsnigrutin 6y ago
        I'm not sure if that's a valid point... i was always under the impression, that most of the violence in "violent cities" is due to violent gang, and that gang members are armed because they have to deal with other criminals/gangs (eg. if you sell drugs, to protect yourself and your drugs from being stolen, or to have "leverage" when racketeering, fighthing for "teritory", etc).
        chrisseaton 6y ago
        So why are police carrying guns outside of these violent cities? Why does a police officer in a nice suburban area who attends things like noisy parties... carry a lethal firearm? That's absolutely crazy to me, and should be to everyone else.
        ajsnigrutin 6y ago
        Because if something does happen there, they use the gun for their protection. Same as in Germany (where the police is also armed). And pretty much every other country, even very peaceful ones, except probably UK.
- villahousut 6y ago
  This is irrelevant. Between US states there is no correlation between violent crime and police shootings: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ckwnky8QQfgBCZ2p2LcwrbslC5yI93fLI_inuCKqmIg/htmlview#gid=343544596 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ckwnky8QQfgBCZ2p2Lcw...
ecmascript 6y ago
Also, regular people using guns for crimes is also probably way, way higher than Germany and Japan. It's not that surprising IMO for a country where there are so many guns for the police to encounter more hostile situations that require utilizing their gun for theirs and others protection. Guns are a weapon that quickly escalates any situation to life or death.
- deathgrips 6y ago
  Wrong. The rate of gun ownership is not the primary predictor of the murder rate in America. I live in a state where over two thirds of people own guns, but the murder rate (and police killing rate) is very low.
  - Ensorceled 6y ago
    The comment you are replying to is asserting that the prevalence of guns mean that guns are more likely to appear/be used in a violent crime, not that they increase violent crime. Your "wrong" is not justified by your evidence.
  - moksly 6y ago
    You can have a high amount of gun ownership and low gun related crimes. But the countries hailed for high gun ownership and low gun crime like Switzerland have some hefty gun control. You can’t buy guns without going through hunting training, getting certified and then they keep registration which links your hunting rifle directly to you. You also can’t buy stuff that’s meant to kill humans and it’s illegal not to lock your weapons securely away when you aren’t hunting. So criminals actually don’t have easy access to guns in these countries, and post terrorism our secret police forces and Europol tracks guns rather well, typically leading to arrests before anyone get to use their guns.
    - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
      > But the countries hailed for high gun ownership and low gun crime like Switzerland have some hefty gun control. Middle of Nowheretown USA (and Canada for that matter) tends to have astronomically high gun ownership rates and astronomically low "gun crime" or any violent crime other than domestic violence and people who are known to each other engaging in fisticuffs over preexisting disputes. I don't think it's the mandatory class you need to pretend not to sleep though and bureaucratic red tape that's keeping people from shooting each other. It's the lack of a society and economy (victim supply) capable of sustaining a "large enough to show up in the statistics" number of career violent criminals that keeps violent crime and therefore gun crime low in both places.

ajsnigrutin 6y ago

But how many criminals in germany and UK shoot at the police officers? I think that this US number is also very different from the German/UK number.

ajuc 6y ago
This is another evidence USA system is insane and needs to change.
- pyritefan 6y ago
  There are many, many other countries with very strict gun control laws. The US is arguably the only location on Earth where people have a somewhat unrestricted right to arm themselves. Should there not be any place in the world where people who believe in personally having the power to defend themselves against attackers and a tyrannical government are able to do so?
chrisseaton 6y ago
Maybe criminals in the US carry and use guns because they fear violence from the police? If you think the police are going to kill you either way, you might as well go out shooting! In the UK you know the police are going to respectfully arrest you and treat you well, so might as well give in rather than escalate it to a firefight. But generally I think it's crazy that the police in the US are armed. Most policing doesn't need lethal weaponry, and community officers shouldn't be armed. Leave guns to specialist units when required. I know Floyd wasn't killed with a gun, but I think disarming the police would be the right response and first step towards reducing police violence, as it de-escalates every interaction.
- ajsnigrutin 6y ago
  You can do this in UK, where weapons look like this: https://twitter.com/mpsregentspark/status/974645778558980096 https://twitter.com/mpsregentspark/status/974645778558980096 But in places with criminals being heavily armed, having unarmed police, just makes the police more vulnerable.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    But my thesis is that the criminals are heavily armed because they know that the police are violent. If the police were less violent, the criminals may see less need to arm themselves. In the US a criminal needs to be ready to defend themselves to the death in any interaction with the police. In the UK, they don't.
    - ajsnigrutin 6y ago
      I'm not sure if that's a valid point... i was always under the impression, that most of the violence in "violent cities" is due to violent gang, and that gang members are armed because they have to deal with other criminals/gangs (eg. if you sell drugs, to protect yourself and your drugs from being stolen, or to have "leverage" when racketeering, fighthing for "teritory", etc).
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        So why are police carrying guns outside of these violent cities? Why does a police officer in a nice suburban area who attends things like noisy parties... carry a lethal firearm? That's absolutely crazy to me, and should be to everyone else.
        ajsnigrutin 6y ago
        Because if something does happen there, they use the gun for their protection. Same as in Germany (where the police is also armed). And pretty much every other country, even very peaceful ones, except probably UK.
villahousut 6y ago
This is irrelevant. Between US states there is no correlation between violent crime and police shootings: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ckwnky8QQfgBCZ2p2LcwrbslC5yI93fLI_inuCKqmIg/htmlview#gid=343544596 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ckwnky8QQfgBCZ2p2Lcw...

ecmascript 6y ago

Also, regular people using guns for crimes is also probably way, way higher than Germany and Japan. It's not that surprising IMO for a country where there are so many guns for the police to encounter more hostile situations that require utilizing their gun for theirs and others protection. Guns are a weapon that quickly escalates any situation to life or death.

deathgrips 6y ago
Wrong. The rate of gun ownership is not the primary predictor of the murder rate in America. I live in a state where over two thirds of people own guns, but the murder rate (and police killing rate) is very low.
- Ensorceled 6y ago
  The comment you are replying to is asserting that the prevalence of guns mean that guns are more likely to appear/be used in a violent crime, not that they increase violent crime. Your "wrong" is not justified by your evidence.
- moksly 6y ago
  You can have a high amount of gun ownership and low gun related crimes. But the countries hailed for high gun ownership and low gun crime like Switzerland have some hefty gun control. You can’t buy guns without going through hunting training, getting certified and then they keep registration which links your hunting rifle directly to you. You also can’t buy stuff that’s meant to kill humans and it’s illegal not to lock your weapons securely away when you aren’t hunting. So criminals actually don’t have easy access to guns in these countries, and post terrorism our secret police forces and Europol tracks guns rather well, typically leading to arrests before anyone get to use their guns.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    > But the countries hailed for high gun ownership and low gun crime like Switzerland have some hefty gun control. Middle of Nowheretown USA (and Canada for that matter) tends to have astronomically high gun ownership rates and astronomically low "gun crime" or any violent crime other than domestic violence and people who are known to each other engaging in fisticuffs over preexisting disputes. I don't think it's the mandatory class you need to pretend not to sleep though and bureaucratic red tape that's keeping people from shooting each other. It's the lack of a society and economy (victim supply) capable of sustaining a "large enough to show up in the statistics" number of career violent criminals that keeps violent crime and therefore gun crime low in both places.