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> The Japanese tend to have systems that assiduously accommodates humans. [...] The systems tolerates, even accounts for, deviations from the norm. That’s tota

> The Japanese tend to have systems that assiduously accommodates humans. [...] The systems tolerates, even accounts for, deviations from the norm. That’s totally untrue. The systems here don’t allow for any, even the slightest, deviation. If that means crushing a life, well, that life will be crushed. Personal anecdote: I was registered at the university and had to change my status. I had to submit a complete application (despite my data already being somewhere in their system). I was missing certified copy of my master degree. I had the original one but they wouldn’t make copies themselves (impossible to forge) because there was nothing about it in rulebook. Finally I was able the register thanks to a paper certifying I passed a master degree in another totally unrelated field! Hopefully the rulebook didn’t state that the master degree one graduated from had to do anything with the PhD one is entering! This whole story is wrong on so many level. I was lucky this time, but that’s not always the case for everyone.

9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
As usual, reality is somewhere between these two extremes. I'll posit a halfway: Japanese life is indeed bound by strictly observed rules and regulations divorced from common sense, but Japanese bureaucrats tend to also know how to navigate these thickets to get stuff done. One thing I've often seen in Japanese offices is the "form to the form", instructing applicants in extreme detail how to fill out the actual form, so it will be accepted on the first try.
- qohen 6y ago
  I happened to recently read this blog post [0] by Patrick MacKenzie's (i.e. HN's own patio11) which, among other things, covers some of his early time in Japan. Part of it shows how things can work out -- towards the end, he relates how he wanted to get a credit card but he couldn't -- there was an official reason but, unofficially, because he was a foreigner. But then a co-worker put him in touch with a bank manager he'd gone to school with who took care of him and kept up a connection with him for an extended period of time (the story, and the stuff that follows, is interesting, as is the whole blog post, for that matter, if you're interested in how business and startups work in Japan, at least as of 2014). https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan...
GuB-42 6y ago
They tolerate deviations from others. But not between themselves. It is a reason why Japan is so great as a tourist, but maybe not so much if you live there. For example, in a shop, they will tolerate clueless customers with a (fake) smile. But if you work there, they will not tolerate the slightest deviation.
wenc 6y ago
My experiences are more toward to the consumer side of things. As a consumer, my perception is that the service culture there is unbelievably good. But I also understand that the experiences between the tourist and the local ones differ. Bureaucracy I've had no experiences with except with immigration. I guess being a non-resident foreigner has advantages too. I once ran into some issues due to a mixup, but Japan immigration fixed it, told me something to the effect "next time, please be mindful of this issue and avoid doing this", and let me into the country anyway.

9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago

As usual, reality is somewhere between these two extremes. I'll posit a halfway: Japanese life is indeed bound by strictly observed rules and regulations divorced from common sense, but Japanese bureaucrats tend to also know how to navigate these thickets to get stuff done. One thing I've often seen in Japanese offices is the "form to the form", instructing applicants in extreme detail how to fill out the actual form, so it will be accepted on the first try.

qohen 6y ago
I happened to recently read this blog post [0] by Patrick MacKenzie's (i.e. HN's own patio11) which, among other things, covers some of his early time in Japan. Part of it shows how things can work out -- towards the end, he relates how he wanted to get a credit card but he couldn't -- there was an official reason but, unofficially, because he was a foreigner. But then a co-worker put him in touch with a bank manager he'd gone to school with who took care of him and kept up a connection with him for an extended period of time (the story, and the stuff that follows, is interesting, as is the whole blog post, for that matter, if you're interested in how business and startups work in Japan, at least as of 2014). https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan...

GuB-42 6y ago

They tolerate deviations from others. But not between themselves. It is a reason why Japan is so great as a tourist, but maybe not so much if you live there. For example, in a shop, they will tolerate clueless customers with a (fake) smile. But if you work there, they will not tolerate the slightest deviation.

wenc 6y ago

My experiences are more toward to the consumer side of things. As a consumer, my perception is that the service culture there is unbelievably good. But I also understand that the experiences between the tourist and the local ones differ. Bureaucracy I've had no experiences with except with immigration. I guess being a non-resident foreigner has advantages too. I once ran into some issues due to a mixup, but Japan immigration fixed it, told me something to the effect "next time, please be mindful of this issue and avoid doing this", and let me into the country anyway.