3 ms·

Well there is a difference between "avant guarde" music and certain things which everyone in a certain social group likes. When I was a teenager in the late 70s

Well there is a difference between "avant guarde" music and certain things which everyone in a certain social group likes. When I was a teenager in the late 70s early 80s, it was mostly hard rock that was socially approved by my peers. In design school in the 80s, it was gothy stuff. Regardless, social groups were almost defined by their music. Also, very few are ever going to admit, even to themselves, that their motivation is impressing others. More likely they will, uhh, take offense at the suggestion. Hey, I remember my sister accusing teenage me of only liking the kind of music that I liked because it was cool to like it. And yeah, I was offended. Doesn't mean there isn't validity there.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Again, how are people trying to "impress others" by listening to this music if they never talk to other people about that music? When I discovered avant-garde music, it was clear that this is something that I should enjoy alone and my friends would not react kindly to it. It was rather a source of shame and insecurity, not a badge of how cool I was. Yes, eventually I moved to a city where this music gets performed and I could meet likeminded people, but that was years later.
- robbrown451 6y ago
  Again, I'm not talking about you. It could be you, but that's not what I'm really talking about. I gave examples of whole social cultures that revolve around a musical genre. And I'm not saying there isn't some value in whatever music they like. But do you think it is just coincidental that tastes in music, art, sports, etc aligns so closely with cultures where people have a vested interest in fitting in? I remember as a kid trying SO HARD to care about professional football, because it was cool to like a team, or at least to be able to talk about a game that happened on sunday. I gave up after a while. I have friends now that if I really want to fit in with, I need to like expensive scotch and enjoy talking about it (I'm sure I could get used to it, but my natural reflex is to spit it out), or maybe I should take up golf, and try to really care about what to me is a deadly dull sport.
- asiachick 6y ago
  Trying to impress your in group, not the out group. south park has made great fun of this with their portrayal of goth kids complaining that everyone is conformist and then demanding that their friends be conform to be just like them, like the same music they like and wear black.
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    As I mentioned, few people who get into avant-garde music through recordings even have an "in group" to impress. They could only get an "in group" if they moved to a fairly small number of cities around the world.
    - robbrown451 6y ago
      Really surprised you seem to assume this is about you. If there's no in-group to impress with your eclectic tastes, and you enjoy them on your own, it really doesn't apply to you. Christi's work required a ton of money, that had to come from somewhere. It clearly wasn't the mass appeal, since he didn't sell tickets or anything. It was rich people who wanted to impress one another with their sophisticated sense of art. (or maybe just with the fact that they had so much money burning holes in their pockets)

Mediterraneo10 6y ago

Again, how are people trying to "impress others" by listening to this music if they never talk to other people about that music? When I discovered avant-garde music, it was clear that this is something that I should enjoy alone and my friends would not react kindly to it. It was rather a source of shame and insecurity, not a badge of how cool I was. Yes, eventually I moved to a city where this music gets performed and I could meet likeminded people, but that was years later.

robbrown451 6y ago
Again, I'm not talking about you. It could be you, but that's not what I'm really talking about. I gave examples of whole social cultures that revolve around a musical genre. And I'm not saying there isn't some value in whatever music they like. But do you think it is just coincidental that tastes in music, art, sports, etc aligns so closely with cultures where people have a vested interest in fitting in? I remember as a kid trying SO HARD to care about professional football, because it was cool to like a team, or at least to be able to talk about a game that happened on sunday. I gave up after a while. I have friends now that if I really want to fit in with, I need to like expensive scotch and enjoy talking about it (I'm sure I could get used to it, but my natural reflex is to spit it out), or maybe I should take up golf, and try to really care about what to me is a deadly dull sport.
asiachick 6y ago
Trying to impress your in group, not the out group. south park has made great fun of this with their portrayal of goth kids complaining that everyone is conformist and then demanding that their friends be conform to be just like them, like the same music they like and wear black.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  As I mentioned, few people who get into avant-garde music through recordings even have an "in group" to impress. They could only get an "in group" if they moved to a fairly small number of cities around the world.
  - robbrown451 6y ago
    Really surprised you seem to assume this is about you. If there's no in-group to impress with your eclectic tastes, and you enjoy them on your own, it really doesn't apply to you. Christi's work required a ton of money, that had to come from somewhere. It clearly wasn't the mass appeal, since he didn't sell tickets or anything. It was rich people who wanted to impress one another with their sophisticated sense of art. (or maybe just with the fact that they had so much money burning holes in their pockets)