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I've been to Germany and Japan many times, and my impression is that while the Germans tend toward orderliness (rule-abiding), the Japanese tend toward perfecti
by wenc 6y ago
I've been to Germany and Japan many times, and my impression is that while the Germans tend toward orderliness (rule-abiding), the Japanese tend toward perfectionism (details).
As a foreigner, it was fascinating to observe how systems in each country manifest these attributes.
From what I observed (and I could be all wrong here), Germans have "opinionated" systems where everybody understands and follows the rules, even if sometimes the system itself doesn't always make sense. Deviation is not well tolerated (except perhaps in bohemian places like Berlin -- or that's what I've been told).
The Japanese tend to have systems that assiduously accommodates humans. They drive compliance through coaxing rather than coercion. The systems tolerates, even accounts for, deviations from the norm. It's like they've thought of everything, and try to make things as convenient as possible.
These differences are obvious when comparing trains/subways in Germany and Japan.
German and Japanese cars also exhibit this difference. German cars generally have opinionated designs (the opinion of the designer trumps the opinions of the users). They're fun to drive but generally require the owners to follow a strict maintenance schedule without deviation, otherwise the car will fail prematurely.
Japanese cars on the other hand are often designed for owner negligence and can accommodate all kinds of abuse while still continuing to chug along (especially Toyotas), contributing to the notion that Japanese cars are super reliable, when in fact they're simply designed for variation.
- tasogare 6y ago> The Japanese tend to have systems that assiduously accommodates humans. [...] The systems tolerates, even accounts for, deviations from the norm. That’s totally untrue. The systems here don’t allow for any, even the slightest, deviation. If that means crushing a life, well, that life will be crushed. Personal anecdote: I was registered at the university and had to change my status. I had to submit a complete application (despite my data already being somewhere in their system). I was missing certified copy of my master degree. I had the original one but they wouldn’t make copies themselves (impossible to forge) because there was nothing about it in rulebook. Finally I was able the register thanks to a paper certifying I passed a master degree in another totally unrelated field! Hopefully the rulebook didn’t state that the master degree one graduated from had to do anything with the PhD one is entering! This whole story is wrong on so many level. I was lucky this time, but that’s not always the case for everyone.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y agoAs usual, reality is somewhere between these two extremes. I'll posit a halfway: Japanese life is indeed bound by strictly observed rules and regulations divorced from common sense, but Japanese bureaucrats tend to also know how to navigate these thickets to get stuff done. One thing I've often seen in Japanese offices is the "form to the form", instructing applicants in extreme detail how to fill out the actual form, so it will be accepted on the first try.
- qohen 6y agoI happened to recently read this blog post [0] by Patrick MacKenzie's (i.e. HN's own patio11) which, among other things, covers some of his early time in Japan. Part of it shows how things can work out -- towards the end, he relates how he wanted to get a credit card but he couldn't -- there was an official reason but, unofficially, because he was a foreigner. But then a co-worker put him in touch with a bank manager he'd gone to school with who took care of him and kept up a connection with him for an extended period of time (the story, and the stuff that follows, is interesting, as is the whole blog post, for that matter, if you're interested in how business and startups work in Japan, at least as of 2014). https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan...
- GuB-42 6y agoThey tolerate deviations from others. But not between themselves. It is a reason why Japan is so great as a tourist, but maybe not so much if you live there. For example, in a shop, they will tolerate clueless customers with a (fake) smile. But if you work there, they will not tolerate the slightest deviation.
- wenc 6y agoMy experiences are more toward to the consumer side of things. As a consumer, my perception is that the service culture there is unbelievably good. But I also understand that the experiences between the tourist and the local ones differ. Bureaucracy I've had no experiences with except with immigration. I guess being a non-resident foreigner has advantages too. I once ran into some issues due to a mixup, but Japan immigration fixed it, told me something to the effect "next time, please be mindful of this issue and avoid doing this", and let me into the country anyway.