4 ms·

Some interesting thoughts but this aversion to the word "guys" needs to stop. My wife uses it all the time to address both mixed and exclusively female groups,

by string 6y ago

Some interesting thoughts but this aversion to the word "guys" needs to stop. My wife uses it all the time to address both mixed and exclusively female groups, it's completely gender neutral. If words like "guys" are causing someone distress then there are obviously bigger issues we need to address. It's also bizarre that this guide suggests avoiding colloquialisms and then suggests using "y'all". I've never heard anyone in the UK say that outside of attempting to imitate a Texan.

eat_veggies 6y ago
I'm not so sure. To me, "How many guys have you slept with?" is a gendered question. > If words like "guys" are causing someone distress then there are obviously bigger issues we need to address. Maybe this is true, but we can address the bigger issues while also making sure people are comfortable in the meantime :) it's really not a big deal to just avoid using a certain word if people don't like it.
- MaxikCZ 6y ago
  > it's really not a big deal to just avoid using a certain word if people don't like it. Okay, I say saying word veggies distresses me. Please stop using that word everyone. eat_veggies distresses me the most, coz it implies that the word veggies is used as healthy food, while I dont like eating healthy. I think its offensive from you to tell me what to eat. See? The problem with that kind of thinking is that anyone can declare anything distressing. If we declare "guys" as distressing, and allow gradual wiping of the word on that basis, where do we draw the line? I think all the guys should take a breath, eat some veggies and start worrying about other things, than if someone adressed them by word they dont like. I seriously dont get this trend of validation of being ofended by most random things.
  - CathedralBorrow 6y ago
    > See? The problem with that kind of thinking is that anyone can declare anything distressing. True, but it tends to be quite easy to separate the real from the disingenuous like yours. So that's there I draw the line at least.
  - eat_veggies 6y ago
    Ok I won't use the word around you, since it distresses you and because I respect your boundaries. That's where I draw the line. Enough people are uncomfortable with the word "guys" that it makes sense to not to use it unless you know that everyone you're addressing is okay with it. I know for a fact that you don't like "veggies" since you told me, so I won't use it with you. Easy, right?
bitwize 6y ago
> Some interesting thoughts but this aversion to the word "guys" needs to stop. My wife uses it all the time to address both mixed and exclusively female groups, it's completely gender neutral. If words like "guys" are causing someone distress then there are obviously bigger issues we need to address. Looking upthread, Hackernews has come to the decision that policing language like this is okay because values change and what was acceptable yesterday may not be suitably inclusive today. History is always happening, so watch what you say.
- Normal_gaussian 6y ago
  I would be wary of claiming "HN" thinks something just because it ranks highly in one thread. Two things to bear in mind: voting here is aimed to indicate interest/quality and not agreement; downvoting a PC related topic is often avoided
silveroriole 6y ago
Yeah. As someone who is frequently the only female in a group at work, it’s more distressing for someone to say “hey guys... and women!!!” or something unnaturally gender-neutral (hey TEAM!), as if my presence is stopping them behaving/speaking naturally. Guys is fine.

by string 6y ago

eat_veggies 6y ago

I'm not so sure. To me, "How many guys have you slept with?" is a gendered question. > If words like "guys" are causing someone distress then there are obviously bigger issues we need to address. Maybe this is true, but we can address the bigger issues while also making sure people are comfortable in the meantime :) it's really not a big deal to just avoid using a certain word if people don't like it.

MaxikCZ 6y ago
> it's really not a big deal to just avoid using a certain word if people don't like it. Okay, I say saying word veggies distresses me. Please stop using that word everyone. eat_veggies distresses me the most, coz it implies that the word veggies is used as healthy food, while I dont like eating healthy. I think its offensive from you to tell me what to eat. See? The problem with that kind of thinking is that anyone can declare anything distressing. If we declare "guys" as distressing, and allow gradual wiping of the word on that basis, where do we draw the line? I think all the guys should take a breath, eat some veggies and start worrying about other things, than if someone adressed them by word they dont like. I seriously dont get this trend of validation of being ofended by most random things.
- CathedralBorrow 6y ago
  > See? The problem with that kind of thinking is that anyone can declare anything distressing. True, but it tends to be quite easy to separate the real from the disingenuous like yours. So that's there I draw the line at least.
- eat_veggies 6y ago
  Ok I won't use the word around you, since it distresses you and because I respect your boundaries. That's where I draw the line. Enough people are uncomfortable with the word "guys" that it makes sense to not to use it unless you know that everyone you're addressing is okay with it. I know for a fact that you don't like "veggies" since you told me, so I won't use it with you. Easy, right?

bitwize 6y ago

> Some interesting thoughts but this aversion to the word "guys" needs to stop. My wife uses it all the time to address both mixed and exclusively female groups, it's completely gender neutral. If words like "guys" are causing someone distress then there are obviously bigger issues we need to address. Looking upthread, Hackernews has come to the decision that policing language like this is okay because values change and what was acceptable yesterday may not be suitably inclusive today. History is always happening, so watch what you say.

Normal_gaussian 6y ago
I would be wary of claiming "HN" thinks something just because it ranks highly in one thread. Two things to bear in mind: voting here is aimed to indicate interest/quality and not agreement; downvoting a PC related topic is often avoided

silveroriole 6y ago

Yeah. As someone who is frequently the only female in a group at work, it’s more distressing for someone to say “hey guys... and women!!!” or something unnaturally gender-neutral (hey TEAM!), as if my presence is stopping them behaving/speaking naturally. Guys is fine.