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> Worst case, you'll be good at whiteboard interviews and can get a job at a FAANG company. Since when is this the worst case scenario for a CS grad? Last I ch

> Worst case, you'll be good at whiteboard interviews and can get a job at a FAANG company. Since when is this the worst case scenario for a CS grad? Last I checked, FAANGs value and compensate their engineers more than basically every other industry. I double majored in economics and comp sci, then got a masters in cs/ml. I didn't plan on going to a FAANG until I realized a few things: 1. Staying in academia was clearly not an option for me. I still have friends who are miserable trying to get through their postdocs and I can't deal with the hobnobbery that some departments exhibit, the political infighting etc. I felt like if I got into the wrong program for a PhD I'd miss out on 5-8 years of my 20s and early 30s. 2. Did the startup thing. Found that most smaller startups are 90% talk and marketing and nothing really groundbreaking happens there. There are a few exceptions to that and if you're lucky enough to find one of those companies, good for you. 3. Other industries that don't focus on software often don't value SWEs the same way. It wasn't until a few years ago that the IT guy who maintained everyones desktops at a small financial firm and the person who wrote the internal software were the same individual. There is nothing wrong with those roles, but if you have the skills most CS grads acquire, you can specialize much more if you find a more software focused role 4. Starting my own thing isn't an option for me personally. I started some companies very early on when in doing my first degree (2009-11) and they failed, great experiences, don't need them again. If this is for you, then good, go for it. 5. FAANGs and other large software corps give you the structure to focus on work, like a laser, and then turn off and still maintain a healthy work/life balance. There are still politics and other bullshit to deal with, but your chances of finding a good team that minimize bullshit are high, in my experience. This doesn't happen at most startups where you have to play many roles. At a FAANG if you are really into a project, you're free to dive into it 24/7. If you're at a different phase in your life, say you just had your first child, you can take a step back and slow down for a bit. Nobody is going to ask "why haven't you pushed 50 diffs this week?" And obviously there is the pay.

oneplane 6y ago
The thing with the FAANGs is that they can be rather unfulfilling. At first, when you are fresh out of the playground going in to commercial engineering, everything seems great, because you suddenly get paid to do a thing you like, and there is all this technology and information and people. But that is not unique to FAANGs, and not unique to CS/IT. At some point you usually end up wanting more, either a more fulfilling job or a job that pays more. The former is probably going to have a human or societal component, the latter will drive you more to banks, economic institutions, insurance, government contractors, exchanges and similar jobs.
- foxtr0t 6y ago
  >the latter will drive you more to banks, economic institutions, insurance, government contractors, exchanges and similar jobs. I worked for a gov't subcontractor (for the USAF) and a bank prior to moving to the bay and working at a FAANG. The opportunities to make 500k+/year don't exist, outside a few private funds that grind you to dust. If you are super well connected and you can start a military contract firm, you can make tons of money, but that has nothing to do with things you'd learn in a CS + X double major. Think tanks and other economic agencies don't compare with a good FAANG salary. You'll start at 50k and be lucky to make 200k by the end. 200k is a starting salary for a facebook engineer in most markets. I have two friends who are engineers at insurance cos, they certainly don't work there for the money. If you're talking about jobs that don't involve CS applications, I wouldn't have any idea, but this isn't what OP was asking about. Not everyone picks a job based one what "fulfills" them. Some people are trying to pay down college debt, support a family, support a lifestyle etc. And if what fulfills you working with very smart and driven individuals on very difficult and ambiguous problems, I think you'll enjoy working for a large tech company.
  - Retric 6y ago
    FAANGs don’t pay that salary because it’s difficult work, they pay that salary because they have trouble keeping turnover down. It’s much like investment banks where the pay is great and many people really want to leave. It’s up to you how you want to spend your life, but everyone I know is much happier after the left.
    - discordance 6y ago
      You mean once they worked at FAANG, saved up enough FU money and then left? Yeah, I'm sure they are much happier.
      - Retric 6y ago
        No, many left within 2 years.
deeblering4 6y ago
> Since when is this the worst case scenario for a CS grad? Last I checked, FAANGs value and compensate their engineers more than basically every other industry. Presumably this is considered a worst case by someone who values other aspects of life more than money. Sure, the FAANG companies are great for highly technical meta-work. And this is good for some people. Other people may prefer a more direct, less corporate, less textbook environment.
- scottLobster 6y ago
  Also some people don't particularly value FAANG tech. Speaking for myself and some of my co-workers advertising algorithms, consumer, enterprise and financial tech just aren't that interesting. Sure the engineering can be impressive, but all that effort for what? So Adsense can be better convince people to buy crap they don't need, Apple can make its products even less practical, Amazon can more efficiently abuse its warehouse staff and make AWS fees more opaque, and facebook can sell your information more effectively while it keeps you up to date with relatives' conspiracy theories? At least Netflix provides entertainment value. Not saying that's all said companies do, and some people (whom I lovingly refer to as "puzzlers") would enjoy the extra complexity and challenge for its own sake. But I wouldn't say the FAANG companies have any particularly inspiring missions. Not that such missions are easy to find, and they almost never pay as well, but they certainly don't seem to exist at FAANG.
  - m4tthumphrey 6y ago
    > facebook can sell your information more effectively while it keeps you up to date with relatives' conspiracy theories The best one-line definition of FB I've ever read.
  - bmikaili 6y ago
    What's an example of a company with an interesting vision for you?
    - scottLobster 6y ago
np_tedious 6y ago
I am a fairly recent FAANG (guessing from your text, probably the same one as you) arrival after a while in startups. Happy with the change so far. Your comment rings true to me. Well said
alexbanks 6y ago
I said worst case to mean "You paid attention to these things and then later found them to be not very valuable to you"
melq 6y ago
>Since when is this the worst case scenario for a CS grad? He said this in the context of advising him to focus on algos and data structures. As in, if you work hard on those things, the worst case scenario is you'll be really good at whiteboard interviews. The point is that even the 'worst case' is a good outcome. Very different than talking about the worst case scenario for cs grads in general.
- _t0du 6y ago
  Thanks, I could've explained better, but that is exactly my point.

oneplane 6y ago

The thing with the FAANGs is that they can be rather unfulfilling. At first, when you are fresh out of the playground going in to commercial engineering, everything seems great, because you suddenly get paid to do a thing you like, and there is all this technology and information and people. But that is not unique to FAANGs, and not unique to CS/IT. At some point you usually end up wanting more, either a more fulfilling job or a job that pays more. The former is probably going to have a human or societal component, the latter will drive you more to banks, economic institutions, insurance, government contractors, exchanges and similar jobs.

foxtr0t 6y ago
>the latter will drive you more to banks, economic institutions, insurance, government contractors, exchanges and similar jobs. I worked for a gov't subcontractor (for the USAF) and a bank prior to moving to the bay and working at a FAANG. The opportunities to make 500k+/year don't exist, outside a few private funds that grind you to dust. If you are super well connected and you can start a military contract firm, you can make tons of money, but that has nothing to do with things you'd learn in a CS + X double major. Think tanks and other economic agencies don't compare with a good FAANG salary. You'll start at 50k and be lucky to make 200k by the end. 200k is a starting salary for a facebook engineer in most markets. I have two friends who are engineers at insurance cos, they certainly don't work there for the money. If you're talking about jobs that don't involve CS applications, I wouldn't have any idea, but this isn't what OP was asking about. Not everyone picks a job based one what "fulfills" them. Some people are trying to pay down college debt, support a family, support a lifestyle etc. And if what fulfills you working with very smart and driven individuals on very difficult and ambiguous problems, I think you'll enjoy working for a large tech company.
- Retric 6y ago
  FAANGs don’t pay that salary because it’s difficult work, they pay that salary because they have trouble keeping turnover down. It’s much like investment banks where the pay is great and many people really want to leave. It’s up to you how you want to spend your life, but everyone I know is much happier after the left.
  - discordance 6y ago
    You mean once they worked at FAANG, saved up enough FU money and then left? Yeah, I'm sure they are much happier.
    - Retric 6y ago
      No, many left within 2 years.

deeblering4 6y ago

> Since when is this the worst case scenario for a CS grad? Last I checked, FAANGs value and compensate their engineers more than basically every other industry. Presumably this is considered a worst case by someone who values other aspects of life more than money. Sure, the FAANG companies are great for highly technical meta-work. And this is good for some people. Other people may prefer a more direct, less corporate, less textbook environment.

scottLobster 6y ago
Also some people don't particularly value FAANG tech. Speaking for myself and some of my co-workers advertising algorithms, consumer, enterprise and financial tech just aren't that interesting. Sure the engineering can be impressive, but all that effort for what? So Adsense can be better convince people to buy crap they don't need, Apple can make its products even less practical, Amazon can more efficiently abuse its warehouse staff and make AWS fees more opaque, and facebook can sell your information more effectively while it keeps you up to date with relatives' conspiracy theories? At least Netflix provides entertainment value. Not saying that's all said companies do, and some people (whom I lovingly refer to as "puzzlers") would enjoy the extra complexity and challenge for its own sake. But I wouldn't say the FAANG companies have any particularly inspiring missions. Not that such missions are easy to find, and they almost never pay as well, but they certainly don't seem to exist at FAANG.
- m4tthumphrey 6y ago
  > facebook can sell your information more effectively while it keeps you up to date with relatives' conspiracy theories The best one-line definition of FB I've ever read.
- bmikaili 6y ago
  What's an example of a company with an interesting vision for you?
  - scottLobster 6y ago

np_tedious 6y ago

I am a fairly recent FAANG (guessing from your text, probably the same one as you) arrival after a while in startups. Happy with the change so far. Your comment rings true to me. Well said

alexbanks 6y ago

I said worst case to mean "You paid attention to these things and then later found them to be not very valuable to you"

melq 6y ago

>Since when is this the worst case scenario for a CS grad? He said this in the context of advising him to focus on algos and data structures. As in, if you work hard on those things, the worst case scenario is you'll be really good at whiteboard interviews. The point is that even the 'worst case' is a good outcome. Very different than talking about the worst case scenario for cs grads in general.

_t0du 6y ago
Thanks, I could've explained better, but that is exactly my point.