5 ms·

> a barrel connector power supply What's wrong with this?

by eeereerews 6y ago

paulryanrogers 6y ago
Perhaps USB-C is considered more modern or convenient
- saurik 6y ago
  USB-C means that I get to use any charger I have and can trivially replace it; a barrel-connector is some one-off component that is precious: if I lose it or damage it I am _screwed_. The article says the device also support some charging over USB-C... why even bother including a barrel-connector? It feels wrong.
  - cybernabjo 6y ago
    It's cheaper to get some replacement barrel-connector cables then USB-C
  - detaro 6y ago
    universal PSUs with all of the few common barrel connector sizes are commonly and cheaply available. I personally prefer USB-C too, just because I have more devices with it, but barrel connectors aren't that weird.
- traverseda 6y ago
  It has USB-C charging as well. I think that's sort of the best of both worlds, it's not like a barrel connection adds much to the board, and it means you can run it from a much less complex power supply. It does mean it has an extra port that you might find unnecessary, but at the kind of prices they're selling this at including a usb-c charger would actually add a fair bit to their costs, and you can buy an aftermarket one pretty easily.
- userbinator 6y ago
  I doubt relatively flimsy and tiny USB-C connectors will hold up to the same kind of abuse as a big robust barrel plug. No one seems to complain about their 120/240 mains plugs not being "modern" either...
  - yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
    > No one seems to complain about their 120/240 mains plugs not being "modern" either Those plugs are standardized. I can use them with a Dell laptop, an Apple desktop, and a VIC-20 from 1982, with zero difficulty. If there were exactly one barrel plug (per country) that worked on everything, you'd see a lot less interest in ditching it.
asutekku 6y ago
As the other commenter said, USB-C is the modern standard so using it would’ve made more sense. You also get an extra usb port with it.
- rhn_mk1 6y ago
  It's not true that you get an extra USB port, unless you mean "you get a charging port". Try one of the hundreds USB-C hubs to see for yourself that they regularly ship USB-C ports that can only be used for charging, and not data. The actual number of USB data ports is not related to what is used for charging, except maybe on some space-constrained devices.
chrisseaton 6y ago
Wouldn't you rather charge over a standard connector like USB rather than some random proprietary barrel and block?
- jesseb 6y ago
  How are barrel connectors "proprietary"?
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > How are barrel connectors "proprietary"? Are they standardised? Can I use a Dell barrel charger on an HP? Wikipedia says it's a mess and people aren't following any standards, with the same physical connector having different voltages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_power_connector#Standards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_power_connector#Standa.... You need a Dell charger for a Dell laptop. We call this 'proprietary'.
    - userbinator 6y ago
      Can I use a Dell barrel charger on an HP? You can, if they didn't add any additional DRM on top of it (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23304194 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23304194 ) and the polarity is correct (center-positive is most common.) The voltage is basically irrelevant --- 18-20V is going to be 90% of all laptops, and the other range is 10-12V.
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        > You can, if they didn't add any additional DRM on top of it ... and the polarity is correct ... [and the voltage is in range] Right - this is what we mean by proprietary.
        serf 6y ago
        You could add those same DRMs to a USB-C connection and 'manufacturer required' power supply. Barrel connectors are not proprietary just because someone implemented theirs in some specific way to harm consumers. In fact USB-C connectors are more likely to implement a DRM, given that the connector comes 'batteries-included' with a data channel that won't need to be re-imagined. Barrel jacks offer no such boot-straps to would-be DRMers. That isn't to say it's impossible (as HP/Dell/Fujitsu have proven), but a 2 prong barrel jack is going to require a bit more effort. If you are using proprietary to mean 'consumer-hostile', use a better phrase. Proprietary has specific context to IP/copyright/design.
CoolGuySteve 6y ago
USB-C lets you share adapters with others. Their commoditized nature means people are making smaller and lighter adapters. Depending on the wattage you can use the same USB-C adapter for multiple devices. There are many USB-C external batteries available.
- cushychicken 6y ago
  All of these arguments apply to barrel connectors as well. Many, many devices have barrel connectors for just such a reason.
  - sukilot 6y ago
    They tend to have different barrel connectors, because barrels can't negotiate voltage.
    - cushychicken 6y ago
      Not at all. That's part of the drawback of barrel jack connectors. There is no standard voltage output. You can undervoltage your product input, or overvoltage it and break something.
      - userbinator 6y ago
        Before the whole USB-C thing, the majority of laptops had already settled on something like 18-20V (with some of the smaller ones at 10-12V). The input tolerances are relatively wide and you are highly unlikely to cause damage unless the polarity is reversed. Here's some comments I made a few years ago explaining why that voltage: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12618406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12618406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7594383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7594383
  - CoolGuySteve 6y ago
    Except their variety destroys the economies of scale that make the USB-C peripheral market so much more diverse.
cushychicken 6y ago
Absolutely nothing. USB-C seems superior because it comes with a data link, and negotiates higher power ratings. The tradeoff is that this comes with complexity. The Pinebook team, sensibly, decided they didn't want to fuck with building and verifying USB-C power negotiation subsystems. Guarantee that everyone complaining about it here has never had to implement, or be accountable for the BOM cost of, a USB-C power negotiation system.
- sukilot 6y ago
  > The Pinebook team, sensibly, decided they didn't want to fuck with building and verifying USB-C power negotiation subsystems. Actually they did, as you can read in the OP or at https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/ https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/
- wlesieutre 6y ago
  USB-C seems superior because every desk that I ever sit at already has a USB-C charger, plus another in my backpack, and compatibility with portable power banks. Granted I haven’t ever had to implement it, but I think you’re underselling its benefits.
  - popped 6y ago
    Are you 12? Honest question
  - popped 6y ago
    Haha my other comment was both down voted and flagged. Think about the chronology then reinterpret my question. When I was 12 I was very active. To only ever have seen USB-C this person might well be a prodigy. Again, honest question. Calm down with the hate boys and girls, try not to assume everyone is malicious
    - dang 6y ago
      "Are you 12" is an internet insult trope. The comment clearly broke the site guidelines. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd be grateful. See also https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=wlesieutre https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=wlesieutre. To have joined HN at the age of 3 would be quite the prodigy.
rsynnott 6y ago
Most people would probably prefer USB-C, as yo can use any old power supply. Though in this case it looks like it supports USB-PD anyway, so doesn’t seem like an issue.

> a barrel connector power supply What's wrong with this?

paulryanrogers 6y ago

Perhaps USB-C is considered more modern or convenient

saurik 6y ago
USB-C means that I get to use any charger I have and can trivially replace it; a barrel-connector is some one-off component that is precious: if I lose it or damage it I am _screwed_. The article says the device also support some charging over USB-C... why even bother including a barrel-connector? It feels wrong.
- cybernabjo 6y ago
  It's cheaper to get some replacement barrel-connector cables then USB-C
- detaro 6y ago
  universal PSUs with all of the few common barrel connector sizes are commonly and cheaply available. I personally prefer USB-C too, just because I have more devices with it, but barrel connectors aren't that weird.
traverseda 6y ago
It has USB-C charging as well. I think that's sort of the best of both worlds, it's not like a barrel connection adds much to the board, and it means you can run it from a much less complex power supply. It does mean it has an extra port that you might find unnecessary, but at the kind of prices they're selling this at including a usb-c charger would actually add a fair bit to their costs, and you can buy an aftermarket one pretty easily.
userbinator 6y ago
I doubt relatively flimsy and tiny USB-C connectors will hold up to the same kind of abuse as a big robust barrel plug. No one seems to complain about their 120/240 mains plugs not being "modern" either...
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  > No one seems to complain about their 120/240 mains plugs not being "modern" either Those plugs are standardized. I can use them with a Dell laptop, an Apple desktop, and a VIC-20 from 1982, with zero difficulty. If there were exactly one barrel plug (per country) that worked on everything, you'd see a lot less interest in ditching it.

asutekku 6y ago

As the other commenter said, USB-C is the modern standard so using it would’ve made more sense. You also get an extra usb port with it.

rhn_mk1 6y ago
It's not true that you get an extra USB port, unless you mean "you get a charging port". Try one of the hundreds USB-C hubs to see for yourself that they regularly ship USB-C ports that can only be used for charging, and not data. The actual number of USB data ports is not related to what is used for charging, except maybe on some space-constrained devices.

chrisseaton 6y ago

Wouldn't you rather charge over a standard connector like USB rather than some random proprietary barrel and block?

jesseb 6y ago
How are barrel connectors "proprietary"?
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > How are barrel connectors "proprietary"? Are they standardised? Can I use a Dell barrel charger on an HP? Wikipedia says it's a mess and people aren't following any standards, with the same physical connector having different voltages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_power_connector#Standards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_power_connector#Standa.... You need a Dell charger for a Dell laptop. We call this 'proprietary'.
  - userbinator 6y ago
    Can I use a Dell barrel charger on an HP? You can, if they didn't add any additional DRM on top of it (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23304194 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23304194 ) and the polarity is correct (center-positive is most common.) The voltage is basically irrelevant --- 18-20V is going to be 90% of all laptops, and the other range is 10-12V.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      > You can, if they didn't add any additional DRM on top of it ... and the polarity is correct ... [and the voltage is in range] Right - this is what we mean by proprietary.
      - serf 6y ago
        You could add those same DRMs to a USB-C connection and 'manufacturer required' power supply. Barrel connectors are not proprietary just because someone implemented theirs in some specific way to harm consumers. In fact USB-C connectors are more likely to implement a DRM, given that the connector comes 'batteries-included' with a data channel that won't need to be re-imagined. Barrel jacks offer no such boot-straps to would-be DRMers. That isn't to say it's impossible (as HP/Dell/Fujitsu have proven), but a 2 prong barrel jack is going to require a bit more effort. If you are using proprietary to mean 'consumer-hostile', use a better phrase. Proprietary has specific context to IP/copyright/design.

CoolGuySteve 6y ago

USB-C lets you share adapters with others. Their commoditized nature means people are making smaller and lighter adapters. Depending on the wattage you can use the same USB-C adapter for multiple devices. There are many USB-C external batteries available.

cushychicken 6y ago
All of these arguments apply to barrel connectors as well. Many, many devices have barrel connectors for just such a reason.
- sukilot 6y ago
  They tend to have different barrel connectors, because barrels can't negotiate voltage.
  - cushychicken 6y ago
    Not at all. That's part of the drawback of barrel jack connectors. There is no standard voltage output. You can undervoltage your product input, or overvoltage it and break something.
    - userbinator 6y ago
      Before the whole USB-C thing, the majority of laptops had already settled on something like 18-20V (with some of the smaller ones at 10-12V). The input tolerances are relatively wide and you are highly unlikely to cause damage unless the polarity is reversed. Here's some comments I made a few years ago explaining why that voltage: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12618406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12618406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7594383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7594383
- CoolGuySteve 6y ago
  Except their variety destroys the economies of scale that make the USB-C peripheral market so much more diverse.

cushychicken 6y ago

Absolutely nothing. USB-C seems superior because it comes with a data link, and negotiates higher power ratings. The tradeoff is that this comes with complexity. The Pinebook team, sensibly, decided they didn't want to fuck with building and verifying USB-C power negotiation subsystems. Guarantee that everyone complaining about it here has never had to implement, or be accountable for the BOM cost of, a USB-C power negotiation system.

sukilot 6y ago
> The Pinebook team, sensibly, decided they didn't want to fuck with building and verifying USB-C power negotiation subsystems. Actually they did, as you can read in the OP or at https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/ https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/
wlesieutre 6y ago
USB-C seems superior because every desk that I ever sit at already has a USB-C charger, plus another in my backpack, and compatibility with portable power banks. Granted I haven’t ever had to implement it, but I think you’re underselling its benefits.
- popped 6y ago
  Are you 12? Honest question
- popped 6y ago
  Haha my other comment was both down voted and flagged. Think about the chronology then reinterpret my question. When I was 12 I was very active. To only ever have seen USB-C this person might well be a prodigy. Again, honest question. Calm down with the hate boys and girls, try not to assume everyone is malicious
  - dang 6y ago
    "Are you 12" is an internet insult trope. The comment clearly broke the site guidelines. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd be grateful. See also https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=wlesieutre https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=wlesieutre. To have joined HN at the age of 3 would be quite the prodigy.

rsynnott 6y ago

Most people would probably prefer USB-C, as yo can use any old power supply. Though in this case it looks like it supports USB-PD anyway, so doesn’t seem like an issue.