5 ms·

There's the homicide rate, which jumped from 33.8% in 2014 to 55.4% in 2015, and has stayed above 50% since. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Baltimore#C

by yters 6y ago

There's the homicide rate, which jumped from 33.8% in 2014 to 55.4% in 2015, and has stayed above 50% since. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Baltimore#Crime_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Baltimore#Crime_stati... A little further down: "Homicides in Baltimore are heavily concentrated within a small number of high-poverty neighborhoods." So, my prima facie impression from these data points is the stand down has not benefitted the poor.

throwanem 6y ago
Would that be the homicide rate that's shown no significant first-derivative variance from the national rate since 2015? - the homicide rate that you're not even bothering to cite correctly? Those are figures per hundred thousand, not per hundred as you give them here. In either case, you're massively misrepresenting the "stand down" order, which was not a policy of indefinite disengagement, but rather a specific instruction given in the scope of the 2015 protests in an attempt to avoid further escalation. Whether or not the order was successful in that sense is a matter for separate discussion, but to claim it's a permanent thing, the way you are doing, is simply false to fact - which is probably why you still haven't sourced that claim. While we're on the topic of BPD actions during the 2015 protests, have you heard about the cop who used the opportunity to loot drugs from a pharmacy and later sell them on to street dealers? [1] I suspect not; for all your apparent interest in the doings of the Baltimore PD, you seem surprisingly ill informed. That's far from all the Gun Trace Task Force got up to, either [2], nor were they alone in their corruption. These are things you need to know about, if you want to talk about policing in my town and expect to be worth taking seriously. But here you are, needing to be told about them. I wonder why that is. [1] https://archive.is/UeB7E https://archive.is/UeB7E [2] https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/2/2/16961146/baltimore-gun-trace-task-force-trial https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/2/...
- yters 6y ago
  This article from USA Today in 2018 implies the effect has been indefinite. Interesting graph, too, that shows the drop in police actively stopping petty crime correlates with a growth in homicides. I heard a Baltimore radio show in 2019 that said pretty much the same thing, highlighted by the police commissioner getting mugged in broad daylight as he was walking down the street with his wife. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/12/baltimore-police-not-noticing-crime-after-freddie-gray-wave-killings-followed/744741002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/12/baltim... “These guys aren’t stupid. They realize that if they do something wrong, they’re going to get their head bit off. There’s no feeling that anybody’s behind them anymore, and they’re not going to do it,” he says. “Nobody wants to put their head in the pizza oven when the pizza oven is on.”
  - throwanem 6y ago
    How does a reduction in police-initiated enforcement actions square with a rise in homicides? Homicide is, pretty much by definition, not a petty crime. Or is this that hoary old "broken windows" theory of policing that's taken such a well-deserved beating over the last couple of decades? The article also, despite a clear editorial slant, can't quite avoid hinting at the kind of solution that actually does need to happen: not for police officers to simply abrogate the responsibility they accepted with their oaths when the public makes clear their conduct has been unacceptable, but for police officers to improve their conduct, and discharge the responsibility they took on, to actually protect and serve. I grant that that lies outside the false dichotomy you choose to draw, between police doing nothing and police continuing in the massive abuse of power status quo ante. But, after all, it is a false dichotomy. You can do better. I hope you can do better, anyway. For one thing, you promoted the deputy police commissioner, which I'm sure he appreciates, and spun the world clear around on its axis so he got mugged in the daytime, when he didn't, instead of at night, when he did. (cf. https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/20/us/baltimore-deputy-police-commissioner-robbed/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/20/us/baltimore-deputy-police-co...) These are very strange errors of fact to go on making with, it seems like, every single claim you've introduced so far. Wherever you're getting your information from, you might consider finding sources that do a better job of sticking to facts, because whatever you've been using up to now seems not much good at anything beyond leading you into error.
    - yters 6y ago
      The point is clear the police withdrawing has not improved things. The solution clearly lies elsewhere. And the 2015 riots did not make anything better.
      - throwanem 6y ago
        Well, now you're just reiterating things you've already said and failed to support the first time. I guess that means we're done here.
        6y ago

by yters 6y ago

throwanem 6y ago

Would that be the homicide rate that's shown no significant first-derivative variance from the national rate since 2015? - the homicide rate that you're not even bothering to cite correctly? Those are figures per hundred thousand, not per hundred as you give them here. In either case, you're massively misrepresenting the "stand down" order, which was not a policy of indefinite disengagement, but rather a specific instruction given in the scope of the 2015 protests in an attempt to avoid further escalation. Whether or not the order was successful in that sense is a matter for separate discussion, but to claim it's a permanent thing, the way you are doing, is simply false to fact - which is probably why you still haven't sourced that claim. While we're on the topic of BPD actions during the 2015 protests, have you heard about the cop who used the opportunity to loot drugs from a pharmacy and later sell them on to street dealers? [1] I suspect not; for all your apparent interest in the doings of the Baltimore PD, you seem surprisingly ill informed. That's far from all the Gun Trace Task Force got up to, either [2], nor were they alone in their corruption. These are things you need to know about, if you want to talk about policing in my town and expect to be worth taking seriously. But here you are, needing to be told about them. I wonder why that is. [1] https://archive.is/UeB7E https://archive.is/UeB7E [2] https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/2/2/16961146/baltimore-gun-trace-task-force-trial https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/2/...

yters 6y ago
This article from USA Today in 2018 implies the effect has been indefinite. Interesting graph, too, that shows the drop in police actively stopping petty crime correlates with a growth in homicides. I heard a Baltimore radio show in 2019 that said pretty much the same thing, highlighted by the police commissioner getting mugged in broad daylight as he was walking down the street with his wife. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/12/baltimore-police-not-noticing-crime-after-freddie-gray-wave-killings-followed/744741002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/12/baltim... “These guys aren’t stupid. They realize that if they do something wrong, they’re going to get their head bit off. There’s no feeling that anybody’s behind them anymore, and they’re not going to do it,” he says. “Nobody wants to put their head in the pizza oven when the pizza oven is on.”
- throwanem 6y ago
  How does a reduction in police-initiated enforcement actions square with a rise in homicides? Homicide is, pretty much by definition, not a petty crime. Or is this that hoary old "broken windows" theory of policing that's taken such a well-deserved beating over the last couple of decades? The article also, despite a clear editorial slant, can't quite avoid hinting at the kind of solution that actually does need to happen: not for police officers to simply abrogate the responsibility they accepted with their oaths when the public makes clear their conduct has been unacceptable, but for police officers to improve their conduct, and discharge the responsibility they took on, to actually protect and serve. I grant that that lies outside the false dichotomy you choose to draw, between police doing nothing and police continuing in the massive abuse of power status quo ante. But, after all, it is a false dichotomy. You can do better. I hope you can do better, anyway. For one thing, you promoted the deputy police commissioner, which I'm sure he appreciates, and spun the world clear around on its axis so he got mugged in the daytime, when he didn't, instead of at night, when he did. (cf. https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/20/us/baltimore-deputy-police-commissioner-robbed/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/20/us/baltimore-deputy-police-co...) These are very strange errors of fact to go on making with, it seems like, every single claim you've introduced so far. Wherever you're getting your information from, you might consider finding sources that do a better job of sticking to facts, because whatever you've been using up to now seems not much good at anything beyond leading you into error.
  - yters 6y ago
    The point is clear the police withdrawing has not improved things. The solution clearly lies elsewhere. And the 2015 riots did not make anything better.
    - throwanem 6y ago
      Well, now you're just reiterating things you've already said and failed to support the first time. I guess that means we're done here.
      - 6y ago