6 ms·

Show HN: k3sup ('ketchup') – bootstrap Kubernetes with k3s over SSH

67 points by alexellisuk 6y ago

boomskats 6y ago
“Yeah, but why is it k3sup? Shouldn’t it be k3hup if it’s ketchup?”
- ebg13 6y ago
  Really k8sup would be closest in both theme and also pronunciation.
  - choward 6y ago
    What 8 letters are you replacing?
    - ebg13 6y ago
      ubernete! This program is a kubernetes boostrap, AKA k8s bootstrap, AKA k8s "up", something that _actually_ sounds like ketchup instead of kethreesup. The author not seeing that makes me both sad and angry.
      - pas 6y ago
        but it bootstraps k3s, which is k8s .. but 5 lighter. (why 5? no idea.) so it's "k3s up".
- allanbreyes 6y ago
  It looks like this is more like "k3s up" to bootstrap k3s, which I just learned is purportedly a lightweight Kubernetes [1]. They named it K3s because: > We wanted an installation of Kubernetes that was half the size in terms of memory footprint. Kubernetes is a 10-letter word stylized as K8s. So something half as big as Kubernetes would be a 5-letter word stylized as K3s. There is no long form of K3s and no official pronunciation. [1]: https://rancher.com/docs/k3s/latest/en/ https://rancher.com/docs/k3s/latest/en/
- stormbrew 6y ago
  really either c2sup (catsup) or k3hup (ketchup). Kinda seems to want to be a whole nother spelling (ket[?]sup).
- Eremotherium 6y ago
  If it were k3hup I would assume it would have something to do with detaching processes but I'm showing my bias here
choward 6y ago
This is getting ridiculous. Ketchup is only 3 letters longer and where the hell does the s come from? If you expect my to pronounce it ketchup then spell it correctly. Otherwise I'm calling it k 3 sup.
- odensc 6y ago
  If you take the "3" as an "e" it would be kesup, which sounds pretty close to ketchup.
- MereInterest 6y ago
  Absolutely. I cannot stand these abbreviations, because they are optimizing for ease of typing rather than ease of reading.
  - andyfleming 6y ago
    I don’t necessarily disagree, but it’s probably a lot easier to come up with unique project names. So many names are taken in package registries or the community in general. Also in this project, if they didn’t say it was called “ketchup”, then k3sup makes some sense. If we accept that k3s exists, k3sup sounds reasonable.
  - quickthrower2 6y ago
    Personally I find touch typing numbers a lot slower. ubernete is as quick to type than a stretch to the 8 key
- Arnavion 6y ago
  I assumed it was because of https://duckduckgo.com/?q=catsup https://duckduckgo.com/?q=catsup , though as another comment says it ought to be k2sup in that case.
  - choward 6y ago
    You mean c2sup? Either way I create unnecessary confusion to save typing one character? Not worth it. I'm not a fan of i18n but at least it has a purpose.
lykr0n 6y ago
If you need an automated tool to set something up, that's a problem in my book. From someone who understands k8s, but doesn't have much practical knowledge of it, the amount of "getting started" and "quick start" articles and tools is a major turnoff for me. If I can't easily read and understand the system and deploy it, I'm using blackbox system that I need to manage but can't understand. I need an automated tool to deploy this thing, another tool to manage it, a tool to manage my applications, another tool to do specialized CI/CD, and so on and so on. Just seems insane to me.
- shockinglytrue 6y ago
  Managing self-installed k8s is a pain in the ass right now, but not much more than trying to manually install Linux without using e.g. the Ubuntu installer. Would that put you off using Linux? Speaking as a daily Linux user since 1996, there are so many parts of the system I still don't understand, but it's not necessary for me to e.g. understand exactly how the font catalog and text rendering works to write a document. The same is true here. There are quite a few companies in this space trying to improve the self-hosted experience, just give it some time As for all the tools you supposedly need, the only one you actually need is kubectl, and it's more than enough to accomplish everything. New ecosystems always endure this abundance of "helpful tools" before consolidating on a few important choices.
  - 0xFACEFEED 6y ago
    You're talking about Linux desktop, no? It's apples and oranges because I assume we're talking about maintaining production systems here. k8s is a mess IMO. It's a giant abstraction and you're forced to interact with the whole thing all at once. If you've done any kind of sysadmin/ops work on production systems then k8s makes you feel like you're re-learning everything all over again. That's a huge red flag to me. When a technology tries to reinvent every layer of the stack instead of gracefully integrating with existing tools then I immediately question the motives and/or competence of the creators. I'm not sure how to express this next point without a touch of vitriol so I'm just going to say it: the way containerization is being promoted for general purpose use is ridiculous. We're living in a world where a 8 core 16G server is dirt cheap. The amount of WORK an application server can do with those resources is insane (if built well). The idea of slicing/dicing that mono application into 8 tiny pods with 3.33333 allotted millicores and a bunch networked cross traffic -- I, I... just don't get it. Why? The vast vast majority of business critical applications can serve all of their traffic with a single server running on a modest (by today's standards) VPS. Add a little redundancy and auto-scaling and you're good to go. When I see small startups trying to maintain the k8s black box I just facepalm myself into unconsciousness. /rant, sorry
wiradikusuma 6y ago
"light-weight utility to get from zero to KUBECONFIG" -- what is kubeconfig? Here I am a total n00b in Kubernetes, hoping to get a clear path for learning it as an app dev. I heard K3S as "easier" K8S, but still confused how to get started and be productive with it (as app dev).
- oso2k 6y ago
  DISCLAIMER: I work for Red Hat Consulting as an OpenShift/Kubernetes consultant. You might want to try minikube [0], minishift [1], CDK [2] or CRC [3]. You'll want to have a machine with a bit of resources available. 2 cores+, 8GB+ RAM, 20GB+ disk space for minikube, minishift, CDK. CRC is happier with 4 cores+, 16GB+ RAM, 40GB+ disk space. kubeconfig (`~/.kube/config`) [4] is a little like your `~/.ssh` folder where your Kubernetes clusters sessions, credentials, metadata are stored & maintained. [0] https://github.com/kubernetes/minikube https://github.com/kubernetes/minikube [1] https://www.okd.io/minishift/ https://www.okd.io/minishift/ [2] https://developers.redhat.com/products/cdk/overview https://developers.redhat.com/products/cdk/overview [3] https://developers.redhat.com/products/codeready-containers/overview https://developers.redhat.com/products/codeready-containers/... [4] https://kubernetes.io/docs/concepts/configuration/organize-cluster-access-kubeconfig/ https://kubernetes.io/docs/concepts/configuration/organize-c...
  - harpratap 6y ago
    I would recommend Kind instead of any of these tools. It's the best local k8s evaluation tool I have found yet. We use it in our projects for local development too.
dreamcompiler 6y ago
Could this not be done -- perhaps more easily -- with Ansible?

67 points by alexellisuk 6y ago

boomskats 6y ago

“Yeah, but why is it k3sup? Shouldn’t it be k3hup if it’s ketchup?”

ebg13 6y ago
Really k8sup would be closest in both theme and also pronunciation.
- choward 6y ago
  What 8 letters are you replacing?
  - ebg13 6y ago
    ubernete! This program is a kubernetes boostrap, AKA k8s bootstrap, AKA k8s "up", something that _actually_ sounds like ketchup instead of kethreesup. The author not seeing that makes me both sad and angry.
    - pas 6y ago
      but it bootstraps k3s, which is k8s .. but 5 lighter. (why 5? no idea.) so it's "k3s up".
allanbreyes 6y ago
It looks like this is more like "k3s up" to bootstrap k3s, which I just learned is purportedly a lightweight Kubernetes [1]. They named it K3s because: > We wanted an installation of Kubernetes that was half the size in terms of memory footprint. Kubernetes is a 10-letter word stylized as K8s. So something half as big as Kubernetes would be a 5-letter word stylized as K3s. There is no long form of K3s and no official pronunciation. [1]: https://rancher.com/docs/k3s/latest/en/ https://rancher.com/docs/k3s/latest/en/
stormbrew 6y ago
really either c2sup (catsup) or k3hup (ketchup). Kinda seems to want to be a whole nother spelling (ket[?]sup).
Eremotherium 6y ago
If it were k3hup I would assume it would have something to do with detaching processes but I'm showing my bias here

choward 6y ago

This is getting ridiculous. Ketchup is only 3 letters longer and where the hell does the s come from? If you expect my to pronounce it ketchup then spell it correctly. Otherwise I'm calling it k 3 sup.

odensc 6y ago
If you take the "3" as an "e" it would be kesup, which sounds pretty close to ketchup.
MereInterest 6y ago
Absolutely. I cannot stand these abbreviations, because they are optimizing for ease of typing rather than ease of reading.
- andyfleming 6y ago
  I don’t necessarily disagree, but it’s probably a lot easier to come up with unique project names. So many names are taken in package registries or the community in general. Also in this project, if they didn’t say it was called “ketchup”, then k3sup makes some sense. If we accept that k3s exists, k3sup sounds reasonable.
- quickthrower2 6y ago
  Personally I find touch typing numbers a lot slower. ubernete is as quick to type than a stretch to the 8 key
Arnavion 6y ago
I assumed it was because of https://duckduckgo.com/?q=catsup https://duckduckgo.com/?q=catsup , though as another comment says it ought to be k2sup in that case.
- choward 6y ago
  You mean c2sup? Either way I create unnecessary confusion to save typing one character? Not worth it. I'm not a fan of i18n but at least it has a purpose.

lykr0n 6y ago

If you need an automated tool to set something up, that's a problem in my book. From someone who understands k8s, but doesn't have much practical knowledge of it, the amount of "getting started" and "quick start" articles and tools is a major turnoff for me. If I can't easily read and understand the system and deploy it, I'm using blackbox system that I need to manage but can't understand. I need an automated tool to deploy this thing, another tool to manage it, a tool to manage my applications, another tool to do specialized CI/CD, and so on and so on. Just seems insane to me.

shockinglytrue 6y ago
Managing self-installed k8s is a pain in the ass right now, but not much more than trying to manually install Linux without using e.g. the Ubuntu installer. Would that put you off using Linux? Speaking as a daily Linux user since 1996, there are so many parts of the system I still don't understand, but it's not necessary for me to e.g. understand exactly how the font catalog and text rendering works to write a document. The same is true here. There are quite a few companies in this space trying to improve the self-hosted experience, just give it some time As for all the tools you supposedly need, the only one you actually need is kubectl, and it's more than enough to accomplish everything. New ecosystems always endure this abundance of "helpful tools" before consolidating on a few important choices.
- 0xFACEFEED 6y ago
  You're talking about Linux desktop, no? It's apples and oranges because I assume we're talking about maintaining production systems here. k8s is a mess IMO. It's a giant abstraction and you're forced to interact with the whole thing all at once. If you've done any kind of sysadmin/ops work on production systems then k8s makes you feel like you're re-learning everything all over again. That's a huge red flag to me. When a technology tries to reinvent every layer of the stack instead of gracefully integrating with existing tools then I immediately question the motives and/or competence of the creators. I'm not sure how to express this next point without a touch of vitriol so I'm just going to say it: the way containerization is being promoted for general purpose use is ridiculous. We're living in a world where a 8 core 16G server is dirt cheap. The amount of WORK an application server can do with those resources is insane (if built well). The idea of slicing/dicing that mono application into 8 tiny pods with 3.33333 allotted millicores and a bunch networked cross traffic -- I, I... just don't get it. Why? The vast vast majority of business critical applications can serve all of their traffic with a single server running on a modest (by today's standards) VPS. Add a little redundancy and auto-scaling and you're good to go. When I see small startups trying to maintain the k8s black box I just facepalm myself into unconsciousness. /rant, sorry

wiradikusuma 6y ago

"light-weight utility to get from zero to KUBECONFIG" -- what is kubeconfig? Here I am a total n00b in Kubernetes, hoping to get a clear path for learning it as an app dev. I heard K3S as "easier" K8S, but still confused how to get started and be productive with it (as app dev).

oso2k 6y ago
DISCLAIMER: I work for Red Hat Consulting as an OpenShift/Kubernetes consultant. You might want to try minikube [0], minishift [1], CDK [2] or CRC [3]. You'll want to have a machine with a bit of resources available. 2 cores+, 8GB+ RAM, 20GB+ disk space for minikube, minishift, CDK. CRC is happier with 4 cores+, 16GB+ RAM, 40GB+ disk space. kubeconfig (`~/.kube/config`) [4] is a little like your `~/.ssh` folder where your Kubernetes clusters sessions, credentials, metadata are stored & maintained. [0] https://github.com/kubernetes/minikube https://github.com/kubernetes/minikube [1] https://www.okd.io/minishift/ https://www.okd.io/minishift/ [2] https://developers.redhat.com/products/cdk/overview https://developers.redhat.com/products/cdk/overview [3] https://developers.redhat.com/products/codeready-containers/overview https://developers.redhat.com/products/codeready-containers/... [4] https://kubernetes.io/docs/concepts/configuration/organize-cluster-access-kubeconfig/ https://kubernetes.io/docs/concepts/configuration/organize-c...
- harpratap 6y ago
  I would recommend Kind instead of any of these tools. It's the best local k8s evaluation tool I have found yet. We use it in our projects for local development too.

dreamcompiler 6y ago

Could this not be done -- perhaps more easily -- with Ansible?