6 ms·

United States is a police state. I said it 20 years ago, people laughed. Now you see if for yourself. American police have positioned themselves as the enemy of

by bsd44 6y ago

United States is a police state. I said it 20 years ago, people laughed. Now you see if for yourself. American police have positioned themselves as the enemy of the people because they see people as their enemy. And the only way to stop the enemy is by applying brute force. If they're doing all this in front of cameras, imagine what they do when nobody is looking. Whereas in other countries, such as the UK, police are considered civilians in a uniform and behave accordingly.

_xerces_ 6y ago
How did this come about, is it the consequence of an armed society, or something else unique to Americans?
- bobbylarrybobby 6y ago
  Militarization of the police following 9/11.
  - pluc 6y ago
    I think it's more militarization of the police because of easy access to guns (so logically police has to have bigger better gear) and erosion of rights following 9/11 (and the gradual complacency/acceptance of it). Mix in a long history or racism, easy access to information - stir and wait for it to explode.
  - ttfkam 6y ago
    People of color throughout this nation's history would disagree that it only began in 2001. It's well documented that modern policing in the US began in the model of slave patrols. And it shows.
  - corny 6y ago
    Or in 1980, Norco California, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norco_shootout#Legacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norco_shootout#Legacy The police were outgunned by a group of bank robbers.
- ttfkam 6y ago
  Racism is a hell of a drug. It's the US's original sin. One it has never truly confronted in any lasting manner.
  - Balgair 6y ago
    > One it has never truly confronted in any lasting manner. I mean, the US has come a long way from chattel slavery, Jim Crow laws, Chinese exclusion acts, Irish exclusion, Italian exclusion, Catholics, etc. It did recently have a black president. Yes it has a very long way to go, but there has been a lot of progress in it's history.
- splintercell 6y ago
  We have a very armed police because we have a very armed populace, and we have a very armed populace because security is your own responsibility, at least in the rural areas (also notice the urban/rural divide, armed populace is in the rural area, and the crazy police stories are from the urban area). One of the main ways America is so different than Europeans because of its political system. Here we empower rural areas (due to electoral college). Without electoral college, the national policies are what urban policies are. NY state looks just like Canada from a political POV, large urban concentrated center who vote and dictate all the policies, and rural areas don't really get much of a say in state policy. Urban areas are ok with different point of views, they are ok with lifestyles which don't result in 'spreading of the tribe' (i.e. abortion, LGBTQ etc), they are less religious, pro-infrastructure spending (because a fire brigade can serve a LOT of people). Rural areas are more religious, self-reliant, pro-guns, anti things which don't spread the tribe. In European democracies, this results in primarily urban driven policies, whereas in the US this results in a constant rural-urban divide and struggle.
  - HatchedLake721 6y ago
    That's an interesting point of view, as a European I've never looked at it as rural/urban divide.
  - dmode 6y ago
    This is an amazing response. Thank you. I might also add that income equality in America is at peak, and as COVID laid bare America has no clothes, were most people are 1 Paycheck away from bankruptcy, while billionaires are still winning from the stop market. You need a heavily militarized police force to maintain peace in such an unqeual environment
    - splintercell 6y ago
      > You need a heavily militarized police force to maintain peace in such an unqeual environment There are many reasons why this argument does not hold water. In every economic system inequality feels terrible. People don't really have an absolute scale of inequality where they get upset if it crosses a certain threshold. It's all a matter of how much do they believe they can achieve the top spot. A starving artist doesn't get super upset at wealth and the lavish parties of a successful artist because he truly believes that one day he'll get there. Tomorrow Jay-Z could become world's first trillionaire but a struggling hip-hop star would still not support high taxation on his assets. The resentment starts when he believes that achieving that high status is not possible (which is not true for America) OR when he loses the existing status (i.e status loss). The status loss theory explains things like Communist revolutions, rise of Christianity in the decline of Roman Empire far more than income inequality. In fact in the United States, people at the low end of income almost never support the income inequality theory, it's almost always done by high social status non-religious left-liberals. For the people at the low end of income curve (but not like starving actors/artist/authors) believe that in the US, people have a shot at becoming rich, but because of loss of economic opportunity due to globalization, immigration etc has resulted in creation of this situation.

by bsd44 6y ago

_xerces_ 6y ago

How did this come about, is it the consequence of an armed society, or something else unique to Americans?

bobbylarrybobby 6y ago
Militarization of the police following 9/11.
- pluc 6y ago
  I think it's more militarization of the police because of easy access to guns (so logically police has to have bigger better gear) and erosion of rights following 9/11 (and the gradual complacency/acceptance of it). Mix in a long history or racism, easy access to information - stir and wait for it to explode.
- ttfkam 6y ago
  People of color throughout this nation's history would disagree that it only began in 2001. It's well documented that modern policing in the US began in the model of slave patrols. And it shows.
- corny 6y ago
  Or in 1980, Norco California, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norco_shootout#Legacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norco_shootout#Legacy The police were outgunned by a group of bank robbers.
ttfkam 6y ago
Racism is a hell of a drug. It's the US's original sin. One it has never truly confronted in any lasting manner.
- Balgair 6y ago
  > One it has never truly confronted in any lasting manner. I mean, the US has come a long way from chattel slavery, Jim Crow laws, Chinese exclusion acts, Irish exclusion, Italian exclusion, Catholics, etc. It did recently have a black president. Yes it has a very long way to go, but there has been a lot of progress in it's history.
splintercell 6y ago
We have a very armed police because we have a very armed populace, and we have a very armed populace because security is your own responsibility, at least in the rural areas (also notice the urban/rural divide, armed populace is in the rural area, and the crazy police stories are from the urban area). One of the main ways America is so different than Europeans because of its political system. Here we empower rural areas (due to electoral college). Without electoral college, the national policies are what urban policies are. NY state looks just like Canada from a political POV, large urban concentrated center who vote and dictate all the policies, and rural areas don't really get much of a say in state policy. Urban areas are ok with different point of views, they are ok with lifestyles which don't result in 'spreading of the tribe' (i.e. abortion, LGBTQ etc), they are less religious, pro-infrastructure spending (because a fire brigade can serve a LOT of people). Rural areas are more religious, self-reliant, pro-guns, anti things which don't spread the tribe. In European democracies, this results in primarily urban driven policies, whereas in the US this results in a constant rural-urban divide and struggle.
- HatchedLake721 6y ago
  That's an interesting point of view, as a European I've never looked at it as rural/urban divide.
- dmode 6y ago
  This is an amazing response. Thank you. I might also add that income equality in America is at peak, and as COVID laid bare America has no clothes, were most people are 1 Paycheck away from bankruptcy, while billionaires are still winning from the stop market. You need a heavily militarized police force to maintain peace in such an unqeual environment
  - splintercell 6y ago
    > You need a heavily militarized police force to maintain peace in such an unqeual environment There are many reasons why this argument does not hold water. In every economic system inequality feels terrible. People don't really have an absolute scale of inequality where they get upset if it crosses a certain threshold. It's all a matter of how much do they believe they can achieve the top spot. A starving artist doesn't get super upset at wealth and the lavish parties of a successful artist because he truly believes that one day he'll get there. Tomorrow Jay-Z could become world's first trillionaire but a struggling hip-hop star would still not support high taxation on his assets. The resentment starts when he believes that achieving that high status is not possible (which is not true for America) OR when he loses the existing status (i.e status loss). The status loss theory explains things like Communist revolutions, rise of Christianity in the decline of Roman Empire far more than income inequality. In fact in the United States, people at the low end of income almost never support the income inequality theory, it's almost always done by high social status non-religious left-liberals. For the people at the low end of income curve (but not like starving actors/artist/authors) believe that in the US, people have a shot at becoming rich, but because of loss of economic opportunity due to globalization, immigration etc has resulted in creation of this situation.