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How about focussing more on teaching police officers to learn how to be calm and composed as much as possible instead of going on the offensive too quickly. Yes

How about focussing more on teaching police officers to learn how to be calm and composed as much as possible instead of going on the offensive too quickly. Yes, there are times when you will "fear for your life" and have to act with force but far too often our police officers are casual in going on the offense. In many cases, it is just a case of being pissed off because the guy/gal they pulled over is rude or verbally abusive or is not complying to a request. Can you take a deep breath and agree that it is part of your job to deal with idiots/crackheads/vulgar people as well and learn how to deal with them without always flashing your gun or tasers ? One thing the police do where I live is to do community get togethers to get to know the actual people. It helps to reduce anxiety and stress. Yes I live in a "nice" neighborhood so it is easy for me to say may be. But can we not try similar police and public get togethers in the "not so nice" neighborhoods ? Is it not even worth a try ? Also, be more strict in getting rid of bad apples which I believe this article touches upon a bit. This specific police officer had a history of violence and he should have been under more scrutiny that he was. Until the respect is mutually created between police and public, no law on the books can prevent these types of unfortunate incidents.

HarryHirsch 6y ago
unfortunate incidents WTF? Srsly, now?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
FireBeyond 6y ago
> How about focussing more on teaching police officers to learn how to be calm and composed as much as possible instead of going on the offensive too quickly. Most police departments do. In the area I work as a paramedic, they certainly are trained in de-escalation. I also know that some of them just... don't... care. I've been dealing with mental health patients, got them calmed down, got a plan for dealing with their issues. And then had a cop march back over (who was on scene, saw the initial incident, the de-escalation), and start shouting at the patient over the destruction of property. The patient's property. "Who the fuck do you expect to clean up that broken glass? Selfish asshole. I should make _you_ get on your knees and clean it". End result? The patient who was compliant and willing to go for evaluation in the back of my ambulance needed to be sedated and narrowly avoided being tased. In the grand scheme of things, worse things have happened. But this was a situation actively under control. And a situation this officer, and only this officer, actively worked to make worse. That incident resulted in a complaint, though I have no idea what the resolution was.
- codegeek 6y ago
  But that is the problem then right ? Conduct like that should have consequences and today there is none. Cops should not abuse anyone even verbally, period. That is their job to handle, descalate as much as possible. Yes there are many good ones but I feel like there are many bad apples too and it is not just a few anymore. It is the culture and mindset of "how dare you challenge my authority or disrespect me". I personally have come up against one cop like that many years ago and funny thing is that I was actually trying to be compliant. He was just on his own high horse and had made up his mind that I was drunk and forced me to take the breath analyzer test. I remember specifically him asking me in a pissed off condescending way "So you are telling me that this machine is going to show 0 reading??" and I was brave enough to say "yes sir since I didn't have any alcohol for last few days at least". I guess I was lucky he didn't do more. But man, he was pissed when he pulled me over for supposedly tailgating him/his partner (It was 2 AM at night and I was coming home from a long drive and was a bit tired and may have gotten a bit closer than reasonable to his car from behind). He punished me hard for that. We went to court. He argued that I seemed drunk and all I could do was like WTF. The point is that he could have easily pulled me over and just asked me "sir is everything ok since you got closer to my vehicle. " I anyway said "Officer I am sorry that I didn't realize as I am coming from a long drive but I am now prompt and aware". His whole premise was he had assumed I must be high/drunk since it was late at night. That is a bad cop to me.
  - FireBeyond 6y ago
    Absolutely it's the problem. It should have consequences. And often, not only does it not, but there is a non-negligible group of police who will "defend their brother" over "doing what is right". There are bad apples in Fire and EMS. We are not perfect. But Fire is proud of a heritage cultivated over many long years of honor and trust, and when someone in the Fire Service abuses that trust (be it theft, assault, otherwise), the "thin red line" doesn't fold in to defend him against all insult, real or imagined, but instead ostracize him.
mundo 6y ago
> teaching police officers to learn how to be calm and composed Try yelling at a Walmart cashier. They won't punch you. Try it with your Applebee's waitress. Try it with the towel boy at the car wash. None of them will hit you. This has nothing to do with training and mutual respect, and everything to do with accountability.
- thephyber 6y ago
  > nothing to do with training I agree with the sentiment of your point, but I would argue it very much is a problem of training. Police in the USA are (were?) taught to always assert dominance to control the situation. Part of that is with voice and presence/stance, but part of it is escalation of force. If you raise your voice and stand off at an officer, their (traditional) training tells them not to leave your body language unanswered. I whole-heartedly agree with the lack of individual and department accountability, but comparing to a WalMart cashier does skip over some relevant facts.
  - tromp 6y ago
    This has been described as the "Warrior" problem [1] [1] https://harvardlawreview.org/2015/04/law-enforcements-warrior-problem/ https://harvardlawreview.org/2015/04/law-enforcements-warrio...
    - zimpenfish 6y ago
      Radley Balko[1] has been reporting on that kind of thing for years. It's quite disheartening. [1] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Ame...

HarryHirsch 6y ago

unfortunate incidents WTF? Srsly, now?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

FireBeyond 6y ago

> How about focussing more on teaching police officers to learn how to be calm and composed as much as possible instead of going on the offensive too quickly. Most police departments do. In the area I work as a paramedic, they certainly are trained in de-escalation. I also know that some of them just... don't... care. I've been dealing with mental health patients, got them calmed down, got a plan for dealing with their issues. And then had a cop march back over (who was on scene, saw the initial incident, the de-escalation), and start shouting at the patient over the destruction of property. The patient's property. "Who the fuck do you expect to clean up that broken glass? Selfish asshole. I should make _you_ get on your knees and clean it". End result? The patient who was compliant and willing to go for evaluation in the back of my ambulance needed to be sedated and narrowly avoided being tased. In the grand scheme of things, worse things have happened. But this was a situation actively under control. And a situation this officer, and only this officer, actively worked to make worse. That incident resulted in a complaint, though I have no idea what the resolution was.

codegeek 6y ago
But that is the problem then right ? Conduct like that should have consequences and today there is none. Cops should not abuse anyone even verbally, period. That is their job to handle, descalate as much as possible. Yes there are many good ones but I feel like there are many bad apples too and it is not just a few anymore. It is the culture and mindset of "how dare you challenge my authority or disrespect me". I personally have come up against one cop like that many years ago and funny thing is that I was actually trying to be compliant. He was just on his own high horse and had made up his mind that I was drunk and forced me to take the breath analyzer test. I remember specifically him asking me in a pissed off condescending way "So you are telling me that this machine is going to show 0 reading??" and I was brave enough to say "yes sir since I didn't have any alcohol for last few days at least". I guess I was lucky he didn't do more. But man, he was pissed when he pulled me over for supposedly tailgating him/his partner (It was 2 AM at night and I was coming home from a long drive and was a bit tired and may have gotten a bit closer than reasonable to his car from behind). He punished me hard for that. We went to court. He argued that I seemed drunk and all I could do was like WTF. The point is that he could have easily pulled me over and just asked me "sir is everything ok since you got closer to my vehicle. " I anyway said "Officer I am sorry that I didn't realize as I am coming from a long drive but I am now prompt and aware". His whole premise was he had assumed I must be high/drunk since it was late at night. That is a bad cop to me.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  Absolutely it's the problem. It should have consequences. And often, not only does it not, but there is a non-negligible group of police who will "defend their brother" over "doing what is right". There are bad apples in Fire and EMS. We are not perfect. But Fire is proud of a heritage cultivated over many long years of honor and trust, and when someone in the Fire Service abuses that trust (be it theft, assault, otherwise), the "thin red line" doesn't fold in to defend him against all insult, real or imagined, but instead ostracize him.

mundo 6y ago

> teaching police officers to learn how to be calm and composed Try yelling at a Walmart cashier. They won't punch you. Try it with your Applebee's waitress. Try it with the towel boy at the car wash. None of them will hit you. This has nothing to do with training and mutual respect, and everything to do with accountability.

thephyber 6y ago
> nothing to do with training I agree with the sentiment of your point, but I would argue it very much is a problem of training. Police in the USA are (were?) taught to always assert dominance to control the situation. Part of that is with voice and presence/stance, but part of it is escalation of force. If you raise your voice and stand off at an officer, their (traditional) training tells them not to leave your body language unanswered. I whole-heartedly agree with the lack of individual and department accountability, but comparing to a WalMart cashier does skip over some relevant facts.
- tromp 6y ago
  This has been described as the "Warrior" problem [1] [1] https://harvardlawreview.org/2015/04/law-enforcements-warrior-problem/ https://harvardlawreview.org/2015/04/law-enforcements-warrio...
  - zimpenfish 6y ago
    Radley Balko[1] has been reporting on that kind of thing for years. It's quite disheartening. [1] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610394577 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Ame...