15 ms·

I am european, and police in the US really is something else: the mindset, the culture, the engagements. There needs to be a nation-wide police reformation.

by fosk 6y ago

Simulacra 6y ago
It is a little different, we don't have a history of socialism, communism, or violent dictatorships or monarchies.
- thephyber 6y ago
  Uhh what? The instigating event which founded our country was a monarchy. I would argue that slaves and indigenous populations experienced a violent dictatorship. I don't think it's actually too much to expect that our officers fix their own culture. I just think it won't happen because they have a toxic tradition of ignoring the cultural cues given by civilian leadership (except the ones that praise police forces no matter how bad they act).
  - throwawaygh 6y ago
    In some ways, your parent hits the nail on the head. Policing in America is so brutal because we don’t acknowledge that we were a brutal apartide state for most of the 20th century, and a racial dictatorship for the first half of our history.
thephyber 6y ago
> There needs to be a nation-wide police reformation. I don't think you can convince a rural Montana rancher that their local Sheriff needs to be retrained because (as they likely see it) gang bangers in Chicago "force" police to be more heavy handed. I'm all for incentivizing police to improve their own culture, but I'm cynical that it won't happen. I'm all for giving police more funding and better tools to do their job more politely, but they already chew up 40% of all local government spending. I think the solution can't be "expect policing to change" and has to be something more like "change the policy and show America civilians how our policing expectations are broken". Americans call the police because a dog is off-leash in a large grassy park. Until we figure out how to tolerate small infractions or at least deal with them without involving law enforcement, there will always be a risk of violence during escalation.
- klyrs 6y ago
  > Americans call the police because a dog is off-leash in a large grassy park. Let's get those facts straight. White americans call the police, and lie about being threatened, when a black man asks them to leash their dog in an area clearly labeled as an on-leash area.
- mirchibajji 6y ago
  I was with you until the last point. If someone is legitimately afraid of dogs, and deliberately go to a park where dogs have to be on leash, and someone shows up with a dog running around, and just don't listen to polite requests? What are they supposed to do? Out here in the UK, I wouldn't call the police (I'm not that bothered), but I can imagine it being a legitimate concern.
  - ryandrake 6y ago
    As a general guideline, you shouldn’t call the police in the US unless it is serious enough that you are willing to risk having your situation be escalated into (sometimes deadly) violence. POSIWID.
WesternStar 6y ago
We should start by repealing the 2nd amendment. It is a bad law. Edit: This along with arm confiscation would limit force in police interactions and thus lower aggression.
- sumedh 6y ago
  > We should start by repealing the 2nd amendment How should people protect their houses/shops when armed criminals try to rob your place?
  - WesternStar 6y ago
    Call the police and have insurance.
    - defnotashton2 6y ago
      And what about when response rates are 40 minutes? What about the gov being oppressive? HK would be diff.
      - WesternStar 6y ago
        The United States of America has an oppressive government if they wanted to use their weapons to protect against tyranny today would be that day. But they don't the 70 million gun owners of America march in support of tyranny not against it.
    - sumedh 6y ago
      What should you do till the police don't come and who will help you out till you get the insurance payout which is not a guarantee.
      - WesternStar 6y ago
        Well I didn't say you couldn't fight. My proposal includes confiscation. Assume very aggressive pursuit of criminals with an unlicensed firearms. Like multi-county dragnet with blocked roads. Like we get O(100) cops for one gun. Most criminals will just probably keep it to cold arms.

I am european, and police in the US really is something else: the mindset, the culture, the engagements. There needs to be a nation-wide police reformation.

by fosk 6y ago

I am european, and police in the US really is something else: the mindset, the culture, the engagements. There needs to be a nation-wide police reformation.

Simulacra 6y ago

It is a little different, we don't have a history of socialism, communism, or violent dictatorships or monarchies.

thephyber 6y ago
Uhh what? The instigating event which founded our country was a monarchy. I would argue that slaves and indigenous populations experienced a violent dictatorship. I don't think it's actually too much to expect that our officers fix their own culture. I just think it won't happen because they have a toxic tradition of ignoring the cultural cues given by civilian leadership (except the ones that praise police forces no matter how bad they act).
- throwawaygh 6y ago
  In some ways, your parent hits the nail on the head. Policing in America is so brutal because we don’t acknowledge that we were a brutal apartide state for most of the 20th century, and a racial dictatorship for the first half of our history.

thephyber 6y ago

> There needs to be a nation-wide police reformation. I don't think you can convince a rural Montana rancher that their local Sheriff needs to be retrained because (as they likely see it) gang bangers in Chicago "force" police to be more heavy handed. I'm all for incentivizing police to improve their own culture, but I'm cynical that it won't happen. I'm all for giving police more funding and better tools to do their job more politely, but they already chew up 40% of all local government spending. I think the solution can't be "expect policing to change" and has to be something more like "change the policy and show America civilians how our policing expectations are broken". Americans call the police because a dog is off-leash in a large grassy park. Until we figure out how to tolerate small infractions or at least deal with them without involving law enforcement, there will always be a risk of violence during escalation.

klyrs 6y ago
> Americans call the police because a dog is off-leash in a large grassy park. Let's get those facts straight. White americans call the police, and lie about being threatened, when a black man asks them to leash their dog in an area clearly labeled as an on-leash area.
mirchibajji 6y ago
I was with you until the last point. If someone is legitimately afraid of dogs, and deliberately go to a park where dogs have to be on leash, and someone shows up with a dog running around, and just don't listen to polite requests? What are they supposed to do? Out here in the UK, I wouldn't call the police (I'm not that bothered), but I can imagine it being a legitimate concern.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  As a general guideline, you shouldn’t call the police in the US unless it is serious enough that you are willing to risk having your situation be escalated into (sometimes deadly) violence. POSIWID.

WesternStar 6y ago

We should start by repealing the 2nd amendment. It is a bad law. Edit: This along with arm confiscation would limit force in police interactions and thus lower aggression.

sumedh 6y ago
> We should start by repealing the 2nd amendment How should people protect their houses/shops when armed criminals try to rob your place?
- WesternStar 6y ago
  Call the police and have insurance.
  - defnotashton2 6y ago
    And what about when response rates are 40 minutes? What about the gov being oppressive? HK would be diff.
    - WesternStar 6y ago
      The United States of America has an oppressive government if they wanted to use their weapons to protect against tyranny today would be that day. But they don't the 70 million gun owners of America march in support of tyranny not against it.
  - sumedh 6y ago
    What should you do till the police don't come and who will help you out till you get the insurance payout which is not a guarantee.
    - WesternStar 6y ago
      Well I didn't say you couldn't fight. My proposal includes confiscation. Assume very aggressive pursuit of criminals with an unlicensed firearms. Like multi-county dragnet with blocked roads. Like we get O(100) cops for one gun. Most criminals will just probably keep it to cold arms.