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The timing of the release of this tool seems a bit innapropriate, given the state of rioting in a few US cities now. It's going to be incredibly draining on la

The timing of the release of this tool seems a bit innapropriate, given the state of rioting in a few US cities now. It's going to be incredibly draining on law enforcement in the US for a few years to identify and prosecute criminals involved in riots. Most victims already who have lost their homes, their businesses, and even their loved ones will mostly likely never see the criminals brought to justice given the scale of the violence. It could be useful to protect people from relatiation under an authoritarian government, such as in Hong Kong. I dislike the idea of a government using mass automatic identification, that could be used again by authoritarians for terrible goals. I also dislike the idea of the opposite and using automatic anonymizing to protect criminals during riots. We're probably going to keep seeing an arms race in this, with good and bad actors on all sides.

heronalps 6y ago
I admit the protest in Hong Kong was largely peaceful, but it's hard to deny that a fringe of protestors were looting and resorting to violence as well. There is no key difference between law enforcement by police in HK and the US.
- jessaustin 6y ago
  One wonders whether the American protests are getting quite so much CIA cash...
pstuart 6y ago
What about identifying the police who are breaking the law? Not just the ones attacking peaceful protesters, but the agents provocateur? Peaceful protest is being squashed and de-legitimized. This is the flowering of fascism.
- jariel 6y ago
  "Peaceful protest is being squashed and de-legitimized. This is the flowering of fascism." This is really not true. The protests turned quickly into riots and the more heavy-handed police tactics literally started only days later. The rioters burnt down a police station for gosh sakes. There are no 'protetors' clashing with police in a violent way. I think decent folks move on after curfew. It's the adventure-seeking rabble, those out for some photos, who want to see the action first hand, who might want to light something in fire. The people not dispersing at curfew I don't think are ideological or protesters in any sense of the word. It's just youth in antagonism for every and all reasons, as old as time.
  - pstuart 6y ago
    Da, comrade. Theses protesters are all criminals and should be shot on sight! Edit: the above intact for owning my words. There's plenty of evidence of the police engaging in unnecessary force and provocation of clearly peaceful demonstrators. It's a straw man argument to make this all about the violent demonstrators and looting. The police are now literally above the law -- that is the real issue at stake. No one except a "libertarian" is going to advocate for the elimination of the police. There's countless cases of clear police misconduct and effectively no accountability for that. You can't have honest dialog with that without acknowledging the flaws in "your side". If you can't acknowledge that any abuse exists, then you are engaging in monologue, not dialog.
- 6nf 6y ago
  Looting and rioting and attacking shop owners trying to save their businesses and burning down cars and buildings. Not peaceful protests.
  - pstuart 6y ago
    And agents provocateur. Violence is part of the plan.
zouhair 6y ago
> It's going to be incredibly draining on law enforcement in the US for a few years to identify and prosecute criminals involved in riots Good. Black people factually live under an authoritarian regime in the US.
- giggles_giggles 6y ago
  They should really have the right to vote!
  - throwanem 6y ago
    Yes, and if it weren't for the constant campaigns of voter suppression targeted specifically at their communities, you might be making the point here that you imagine yourself to be.
  - sukilot 6y ago
    Even ignoring voter suppression issues, being in a minority group in a democracy does not preclude authoritarian oppression. This is simple math, known as "tyranny of the majority", and is why the US Constitution is longer than just a paragraph about democratic elections.
  - ixtli 6y ago
    This comment is why it's important to be more precise than the word "authoritarian." We all live under an "authoritarian regime" to one degree or another. The problem in this case is that its institutionally racist towards, and extrajudicially assassinates, black people with impunity. We must be more precise because otherwise it allows _this_ to happen.
- yters 6y ago
  What are the facts supporting your claim?
  - throwaway2048 6y ago
    This definitely seems like a good faith attempt to litigate the history of black oppression in the USA from first principles.
Uehreka 6y ago
It would be nice if our law enforcement had legitimacy and credibility, because then we could know that showing someone’s face would lead to them being arrested and facing a sentence commensurate with what they had done. But unfortunately this is not the case. Showing the face of a protestor smashing in a window will not lead to that protestor being brought to court and handed a sentence for community service, a fine, or some light jail time. It will lead to extrajudicial retaliation and possibly death. Again, it would be nice if that weren’t the case and we could trust law enforcement to behave appropriately. But given that they and their supporters are known to hunt down and kill people who protest against them, we cannot in good conscience make it easier for them to do so. If we are to trust the cops again, they need to show us they are worthy of trust. And they sure aren’t doing that right now.
- pstuart 6y ago
  > If we are to trust the cops again, they need to show us they are worthy of trust. And they sure aren’t doing that right now. What I've seen in the past 2 days is that the police are doubling down on being oppressors, not public servants. I expect it to get much worse before it (possibly) gets better. And it may not get better.
  - jariel 6y ago
    This is not fair at all. Protest turned to riots, literally burning down police stations. Police action wasn't until much later, and they were perfectly fine with the daytime, civil unrest. During the evening, the 'protestors' went home and the agitators came out to fight police, and that's that. When people are looting every store on a street, the police have no choice but to physically move in. There are very few options for anyone at that point.
    - pstuart 6y ago
      > This is not fair at all. Nyet, comrade. My points were perfectly valid and to not acknowledge them is willful ignorance at best. Black bloc and others are a problem but that actually feeds into what the authorities want, which is to completely suppress protest and civil disobedience. Challenge: explain away the arrest of compliant CNN reporters on live tv, as well as the intentional targeting of reporters elsewhere (with rubber bullets), and last, but very much not least, the police shooting people in their yards for the act of filming them.
empath75 6y ago
Uprisings are always bad when you don’t agree with them.
pengstrom 6y ago
The US leadership's is widely considered authoritarian already. Trumps response to the unrest has only fortified that perception.

heronalps 6y ago

I admit the protest in Hong Kong was largely peaceful, but it's hard to deny that a fringe of protestors were looting and resorting to violence as well. There is no key difference between law enforcement by police in HK and the US.

jessaustin 6y ago
One wonders whether the American protests are getting quite so much CIA cash...

pstuart 6y ago

What about identifying the police who are breaking the law? Not just the ones attacking peaceful protesters, but the agents provocateur? Peaceful protest is being squashed and de-legitimized. This is the flowering of fascism.

jariel 6y ago
"Peaceful protest is being squashed and de-legitimized. This is the flowering of fascism." This is really not true. The protests turned quickly into riots and the more heavy-handed police tactics literally started only days later. The rioters burnt down a police station for gosh sakes. There are no 'protetors' clashing with police in a violent way. I think decent folks move on after curfew. It's the adventure-seeking rabble, those out for some photos, who want to see the action first hand, who might want to light something in fire. The people not dispersing at curfew I don't think are ideological or protesters in any sense of the word. It's just youth in antagonism for every and all reasons, as old as time.
- pstuart 6y ago
  Da, comrade. Theses protesters are all criminals and should be shot on sight! Edit: the above intact for owning my words. There's plenty of evidence of the police engaging in unnecessary force and provocation of clearly peaceful demonstrators. It's a straw man argument to make this all about the violent demonstrators and looting. The police are now literally above the law -- that is the real issue at stake. No one except a "libertarian" is going to advocate for the elimination of the police. There's countless cases of clear police misconduct and effectively no accountability for that. You can't have honest dialog with that without acknowledging the flaws in "your side". If you can't acknowledge that any abuse exists, then you are engaging in monologue, not dialog.
6nf 6y ago
Looting and rioting and attacking shop owners trying to save their businesses and burning down cars and buildings. Not peaceful protests.
- pstuart 6y ago
  And agents provocateur. Violence is part of the plan.

zouhair 6y ago

> It's going to be incredibly draining on law enforcement in the US for a few years to identify and prosecute criminals involved in riots Good. Black people factually live under an authoritarian regime in the US.

giggles_giggles 6y ago
They should really have the right to vote!
- throwanem 6y ago
  Yes, and if it weren't for the constant campaigns of voter suppression targeted specifically at their communities, you might be making the point here that you imagine yourself to be.
- sukilot 6y ago
  Even ignoring voter suppression issues, being in a minority group in a democracy does not preclude authoritarian oppression. This is simple math, known as "tyranny of the majority", and is why the US Constitution is longer than just a paragraph about democratic elections.
- ixtli 6y ago
  This comment is why it's important to be more precise than the word "authoritarian." We all live under an "authoritarian regime" to one degree or another. The problem in this case is that its institutionally racist towards, and extrajudicially assassinates, black people with impunity. We must be more precise because otherwise it allows _this_ to happen.
yters 6y ago
What are the facts supporting your claim?
- throwaway2048 6y ago
  This definitely seems like a good faith attempt to litigate the history of black oppression in the USA from first principles.

Uehreka 6y ago

It would be nice if our law enforcement had legitimacy and credibility, because then we could know that showing someone’s face would lead to them being arrested and facing a sentence commensurate with what they had done. But unfortunately this is not the case. Showing the face of a protestor smashing in a window will not lead to that protestor being brought to court and handed a sentence for community service, a fine, or some light jail time. It will lead to extrajudicial retaliation and possibly death. Again, it would be nice if that weren’t the case and we could trust law enforcement to behave appropriately. But given that they and their supporters are known to hunt down and kill people who protest against them, we cannot in good conscience make it easier for them to do so. If we are to trust the cops again, they need to show us they are worthy of trust. And they sure aren’t doing that right now.

pstuart 6y ago
> If we are to trust the cops again, they need to show us they are worthy of trust. And they sure aren’t doing that right now. What I've seen in the past 2 days is that the police are doubling down on being oppressors, not public servants. I expect it to get much worse before it (possibly) gets better. And it may not get better.
- jariel 6y ago
  This is not fair at all. Protest turned to riots, literally burning down police stations. Police action wasn't until much later, and they were perfectly fine with the daytime, civil unrest. During the evening, the 'protestors' went home and the agitators came out to fight police, and that's that. When people are looting every store on a street, the police have no choice but to physically move in. There are very few options for anyone at that point.
  - pstuart 6y ago
    > This is not fair at all. Nyet, comrade. My points were perfectly valid and to not acknowledge them is willful ignorance at best. Black bloc and others are a problem but that actually feeds into what the authorities want, which is to completely suppress protest and civil disobedience. Challenge: explain away the arrest of compliant CNN reporters on live tv, as well as the intentional targeting of reporters elsewhere (with rubber bullets), and last, but very much not least, the police shooting people in their yards for the act of filming them.

empath75 6y ago

Uprisings are always bad when you don’t agree with them.

pengstrom 6y ago

The US leadership's is widely considered authoritarian already. Trumps response to the unrest has only fortified that perception.