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And here I was hoping it was a normal keyboard, with eink key caps. Instead it's what looks like the worst possible design for implementing a solidly obvious id

And here I was hoping it was a normal keyboard, with eink key caps. Instead it's what looks like the worst possible design for implementing a solidly obvious idea. (I still don't know why people tried this with LED screen keycaps instead of doing eink first, and then were surprised a $250, one-trick keyboard didn't fly off the shelves)

jarfil 6y ago
Eink used to be expensive, have slow refresh rates, and no color. OLED screens on the other hand have vibrant colors and can show videos. The concept of OLED keycaps is still superior, but it needs to be realized much better and much cheaper to be a top seller.
- emsy 6y ago
  The problem is that unlike a phone or a tv these will probably be on for the whole workday, so 8h+ with little change to what is displayed and probably at a high contrast. The burn in will probably be an issue.
  - teraflop 6y ago
    That's an easily solvable problem -- just have each individual key label bounce around the keycap like a DVD player screensaver.
  - TheRealPomax 6y ago
    What burn-in? E-ink is a passive technology, it's not "on" like liquid crystals that have to constantly be pulled into a specific configuration by applying fresh charge, and will settle in that configuration over time as they find the lowest energy state amongst themselves that then has to be overcome with a higher charge.
ashtonkem 6y ago
$250 is a perfectly acceptable price for the keyboard enthusiast space; but that’s not a massive market compared to regular keyboards.
- TheRealPomax 6y ago
  As a keyboard enthusiast: not really. $250 is daily driver territory, not "kickstarter keyboard" pricing.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    My daily driver is $350, so yeah. Just saying that you can charge some pretty high prices to enthusiasts.
Twirrim 6y ago
The form factor of this and the Apple Magic keyboard are just an ergonomic nightmare. I have a strong preference for natural / split keyboards, but I'm perfectly content with typing on normal keyboards if that's all that is available. It might take me weeks or months of typing on a standard keyboard before I start to get the aches going in my wrists. I lasted barely half a day with a 2015/2016 era Magic keyboard before my wrists started hurting like sweet merry hell. It's far too cramped, forcing the wrists and arms at weird angles, even with the keyboard out at full arm's length. (I find the Magic Mouse to be similarly absurd from an ergonomic perspective. Shape was fine, but having to arch a finger to use it is crazy, and similarly bad for RSI) I was really curious to see what the offering was here, but, ignoring price, this is just such a terrible, gimmicky choice of form factor. They immediately eliminate a sizeable potential market by choosing this one.
Groxx 6y ago
What would a "normal keyboard with eink key caps" imply? Like, a mechanical one? You'd still have to wire up power and data to each key-cap, which doesn't seem like it'd be a simple modification. And the lower movement distance of this format would make [whatever] simpler and last longer too.
SonderDesign 6y ago
I'm one of the founders, E Ink displays have their display drivers on their glass substrate, meaning you would have a border that on a single key display would be too significant. We went with one large display with only one driving board for the entirety of the keys. This greatly reduced the unit cost to have one large EPD than 80+ small ones.
- TheRealPomax 6y ago
  And in the process designed a keyboard that is probably a little worse than apple's execution on this ergonomic nightmare. The challenge in this space was to make a real keyboard - sure, that'd involve overcoming the "how do we get the wires from the board through the switch to the keycap", starting with off the shelf switches and caps (because it's okay to not offer people the choice to replace their own keys when you make something like this) because as you say, it would be way harder (and far more costly) to make individual keys be self-contained e-ink units.

jarfil 6y ago

Eink used to be expensive, have slow refresh rates, and no color. OLED screens on the other hand have vibrant colors and can show videos. The concept of OLED keycaps is still superior, but it needs to be realized much better and much cheaper to be a top seller.

emsy 6y ago
The problem is that unlike a phone or a tv these will probably be on for the whole workday, so 8h+ with little change to what is displayed and probably at a high contrast. The burn in will probably be an issue.
- teraflop 6y ago
  That's an easily solvable problem -- just have each individual key label bounce around the keycap like a DVD player screensaver.
- TheRealPomax 6y ago
  What burn-in? E-ink is a passive technology, it's not "on" like liquid crystals that have to constantly be pulled into a specific configuration by applying fresh charge, and will settle in that configuration over time as they find the lowest energy state amongst themselves that then has to be overcome with a higher charge.

ashtonkem 6y ago

$250 is a perfectly acceptable price for the keyboard enthusiast space; but that’s not a massive market compared to regular keyboards.

TheRealPomax 6y ago
As a keyboard enthusiast: not really. $250 is daily driver territory, not "kickstarter keyboard" pricing.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  My daily driver is $350, so yeah. Just saying that you can charge some pretty high prices to enthusiasts.

Twirrim 6y ago

The form factor of this and the Apple Magic keyboard are just an ergonomic nightmare. I have a strong preference for natural / split keyboards, but I'm perfectly content with typing on normal keyboards if that's all that is available. It might take me weeks or months of typing on a standard keyboard before I start to get the aches going in my wrists. I lasted barely half a day with a 2015/2016 era Magic keyboard before my wrists started hurting like sweet merry hell. It's far too cramped, forcing the wrists and arms at weird angles, even with the keyboard out at full arm's length. (I find the Magic Mouse to be similarly absurd from an ergonomic perspective. Shape was fine, but having to arch a finger to use it is crazy, and similarly bad for RSI) I was really curious to see what the offering was here, but, ignoring price, this is just such a terrible, gimmicky choice of form factor. They immediately eliminate a sizeable potential market by choosing this one.

Groxx 6y ago

What would a "normal keyboard with eink key caps" imply? Like, a mechanical one? You'd still have to wire up power and data to each key-cap, which doesn't seem like it'd be a simple modification. And the lower movement distance of this format would make [whatever] simpler and last longer too.

SonderDesign 6y ago

I'm one of the founders, E Ink displays have their display drivers on their glass substrate, meaning you would have a border that on a single key display would be too significant. We went with one large display with only one driving board for the entirety of the keys. This greatly reduced the unit cost to have one large EPD than 80+ small ones.

TheRealPomax 6y ago
And in the process designed a keyboard that is probably a little worse than apple's execution on this ergonomic nightmare. The challenge in this space was to make a real keyboard - sure, that'd involve overcoming the "how do we get the wires from the board through the switch to the keycap", starting with off the shelf switches and caps (because it's okay to not offer people the choice to replace their own keys when you make something like this) because as you say, it would be way harder (and far more costly) to make individual keys be self-contained e-ink units.