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I've never been able to reconcile "Only hire A players" with the Dunning-Kruger effect. "The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their

by ojbyrne 16y ago

I've never been able to reconcile "Only hire A players" with the Dunning-Kruger effect. "The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their own abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect The bit in this article about: "B players tend to have slightly more self-confidence issues." suggests to me that the many so-called B players are actually A players, and the so-called A players are F players.

stcredzero 16y ago
The Dunning-Kruger effect is how B and C players start startups. Note, the Dunning-Kruger effect isn't an absolute law like the Laws of Thermodynamics. Also, if someone has certain attributes like an "A Player" but is debilitated by self confidence, are they really an "A Player?"
- georgieporgie 16y ago
  The Dunning-Kruger effect is how B and C players start startups. The Dunning-Kruger effect is how people who are involved with startups come to think you must be an "A-player" to be successful.
j_baker 16y ago
I think one key assumption that you're missing is that it's possible to have an inferiority complex and a superiority complex at the same time. In fact, Adler believed that inferiority and superiority were two sides of the same coin. That is, people feel inferior and adjust their attitude to the outer world to over-compensate. Steven Berglas has written a pretty good amount on this issue: http://hbr.org/2006/09/how-to-keep-a-players-productive/ar/1 http://hbr.org/2006/09/how-to-keep-a-players-productive/ar/1 ...There used to be a free version of this, but I can't find it anymore. Still, the introductory text is informative, and it's worth the $7 if this is a subject that's important to you. To summarize though, "A Players" are often driven by an inferiority complex that constantly manifests itself as an external egotism because they're constantly trying to seek approval from others. When you work with them, your first reaction will probably be that they need to be "brought down a notch", but this is a mistake that will only make things worse. The key is helping to build confidence and show that you trust their abilities.
- dpritchett 16y ago
  I've found a handy Google template for these situations: "document title in quotes" filetype:pdf
jerf 16y ago
Dunning-Kruger is about how a person rates themselves. The A/B/C system is a quick way of explaining things from the omniscient narrator perspective. The A/B/C is not about the self-rating of the person, it is about their real skill. Dunning-Kruger is thus not at all in effect in that saying. If you think you've got a B who is "really" an A, they almost by definition you're coming from the wrong perspective for that saying. As for the other errors people can make in judging the skills of others, well, that is what A/B/C is about.
- bane 16y ago
  An interesting, related idea: the 10 point hiring system. I've had this related to me a few times and generally found it to be true. A person who is an 8,9 or 10 will try to hire 8s, 9s or 10s, because they recognize that you need to best people on your team and can overcome their egos to hire people that could potentially replace them. 7s will hire a 7, because, while they don't want anybody under them who are better than them, they recognize you don't want people who are worse than them. 6s will hire 5s or less, 5s will hire 4s or less, etc...anything to make them feel they are better than those that work for them.
jdp23 16y ago
Agreed about illusory superiority and the Dunning-Kruger effect ... I'm pretty good at seeing people's strengths and potential, and so often am surprised to discover have a higher opinion of somebody's abilities then they do of themselves. Also agreed that a lot of co-called A players aren't. Cultural and gender issues make it even more complex. In general I try to stay away from the whole notion of "A players" because of the connotations of grading (bleah) and a single scale. That said, I also think it's a mistake to hire somebody who think can't do a good enough job on your current needs; that's seting yourself up for failure.

by ojbyrne 16y ago

stcredzero 16y ago

The Dunning-Kruger effect is how B and C players start startups. Note, the Dunning-Kruger effect isn't an absolute law like the Laws of Thermodynamics. Also, if someone has certain attributes like an "A Player" but is debilitated by self confidence, are they really an "A Player?"

georgieporgie 16y ago
The Dunning-Kruger effect is how B and C players start startups. The Dunning-Kruger effect is how people who are involved with startups come to think you must be an "A-player" to be successful.

j_baker 16y ago

I think one key assumption that you're missing is that it's possible to have an inferiority complex and a superiority complex at the same time. In fact, Adler believed that inferiority and superiority were two sides of the same coin. That is, people feel inferior and adjust their attitude to the outer world to over-compensate. Steven Berglas has written a pretty good amount on this issue: http://hbr.org/2006/09/how-to-keep-a-players-productive/ar/1 http://hbr.org/2006/09/how-to-keep-a-players-productive/ar/1 ...There used to be a free version of this, but I can't find it anymore. Still, the introductory text is informative, and it's worth the $7 if this is a subject that's important to you. To summarize though, "A Players" are often driven by an inferiority complex that constantly manifests itself as an external egotism because they're constantly trying to seek approval from others. When you work with them, your first reaction will probably be that they need to be "brought down a notch", but this is a mistake that will only make things worse. The key is helping to build confidence and show that you trust their abilities.

dpritchett 16y ago
I've found a handy Google template for these situations: "document title in quotes" filetype:pdf

jerf 16y ago

Dunning-Kruger is about how a person rates themselves. The A/B/C system is a quick way of explaining things from the omniscient narrator perspective. The A/B/C is not about the self-rating of the person, it is about their real skill. Dunning-Kruger is thus not at all in effect in that saying. If you think you've got a B who is "really" an A, they almost by definition you're coming from the wrong perspective for that saying. As for the other errors people can make in judging the skills of others, well, that is what A/B/C is about.

bane 16y ago
An interesting, related idea: the 10 point hiring system. I've had this related to me a few times and generally found it to be true. A person who is an 8,9 or 10 will try to hire 8s, 9s or 10s, because they recognize that you need to best people on your team and can overcome their egos to hire people that could potentially replace them. 7s will hire a 7, because, while they don't want anybody under them who are better than them, they recognize you don't want people who are worse than them. 6s will hire 5s or less, 5s will hire 4s or less, etc...anything to make them feel they are better than those that work for them.

jdp23 16y ago

Agreed about illusory superiority and the Dunning-Kruger effect ... I'm pretty good at seeing people's strengths and potential, and so often am surprised to discover have a higher opinion of somebody's abilities then they do of themselves. Also agreed that a lot of co-called A players aren't. Cultural and gender issues make it even more complex. In general I try to stay away from the whole notion of "A players" because of the connotations of grading (bleah) and a single scale. That said, I also think it's a mistake to hire somebody who think can't do a good enough job on your current needs; that's seting yourself up for failure.