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The U.S. Military Is Monitoring Protests in Seven States

38 points by AndrewBissell 6y ago

KKPMW 6y ago
As they should. Those protests are ripe for foreign influence escalating the situation. USA knows this best of all with its history of amplifying civil unrest abroad in order to advance its geopolitical goals. For USA the most recent were the Honk-Kong protests which it used to try undermining China. So wondering how China will respond now. Russia might try promoting Black Lives Matter again to escalate the tensions. Then there is Iran too. Would be interesting to somehow get the list of all the players.
- obilgic 6y ago
  I wonder if this is why Trump, in one of his recent press briefings, just talked about Hong Kong.
  - obilgic 6y ago
    HN, anything with "Trump" in it gets downvoted? smh
- throwablePie 6y ago
  I'm an African American living in Asia. I have lived in China. And I have experienced much more racism in America than in China. Some will not believe me so I'm prepared to prove it if necessary. Recently, certain politicians have made grave proclamations about people/thugs fighting for freedom in HK, Minneapolis, and other places around the world. It should be interesting and instructive to observe the cognitive dissonance and resulting contortions of U.S. and other Western politicians as they address this grave matter. I have observed that whenever some of my compatriots are presented with information that lies outside their regular programming, they label the messenger either a Chinese or Russian troll. This Australian woman has noticed this phenomenon: https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/03/19/liberal-npcs-hate-russia-conservative-npcs-hate-china/ https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/03/19/liberal-npcs-hate-ru... These could be as a result of foreign influence operations by the Russians or the Chinese. Then again, this effect might simply be the result of the online labors of America's equivalent of GCHQ's JTRIG: https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Threat_Research_Intelligence_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Threat_Research_Intellig... We (Americans) are the masters of "foreign influence operations."
  - malandrew 6y ago
    I’m from South America and have lived in China (2 years) and the US (30 years) too and the only conclusion I can come to is that your post is likely one of the trolls this comment references. In the two years I lived in both rural Hebei and Beijing and in the time I spent traveling around the country, I witnessed far more elements of fascism (especially out in Kashgar and rural parts of Xinjiang) than the US that it’s not even close. If this comment was something someone had actual conviction about they wouldn’t be using a throwaway account.
    - throwablePie 6y ago
      You're entitled to an opinion. Even racists and JTRIG operatives have opinions. Quite often, racists are quick to dismiss black people's allegations of racism because they lack empathy... even when confronted with video evidence. One thing I noticed while living in China is that it's not usually Africans and African Americans who complain the most about Chinese racism against black people. No, sir! It's usually non-black racists who have experienced discrimination for the first time and finally found an opportunity to camouflage and justify their own racism against blacks, Asians, etc. by using the Chinese as a canvas on which they can paint a narrative. A person can travel to China (or elsewhere in Asia), date and marry the locals, have mixed race offspring and still have strong prejudice against Asians or other people of color. See for instance SerpentZA and Laowhy86 and their reactions to the physiognomy of their own children. And SerpentZA's expressed opinions on post-Apartheid South Africa. Are there racists in China? Of course there are. Is there rampant discrimination against non-Han people. Yes! People of all colors can be racist or ethnocentric. But is Chinese anti-black racism worse than American anti-black racism as the recent narratives have proclaimed? No! An emphatic "NO"! In China, most foreigners experience racism at some point during their stay. For a non-black person who has never experienced in-your-face racism, this has to be a jarring and disorienting experience. For a black person in China, particularly an American black person, it's just "meh" racism. The cops aren't trying to murder you for simply existing and no one will try to lock you up in prison forever for not being the right color. Granted, as in America, some people may not date you and some employers will not hire you due to the color of your skin, but the vast majority of Chinese will be warm and friendly toward you and they won't clutch their pearls when they encounter you day or night. So, in my opinion (as a black man) living in China was quite a refreshingly meh and relaxing experience. "I didn't even have to use my AK." Apparently, your experience varied and you hold a different opinion about the relative toxicity of Chinese and American racism. But, as you noted, we are different people. Welcome to racism for the inexperienced... it hurts, doesn't it? I feel for you but I will not apologize for living a different experience than explained by your programming or your privilege. If that makes me a "troll", so be it.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- GoodJokes 6y ago
  Yes the military is definitley a de-escalation force
battery_cowboy 6y ago
> Augment MN State Patrol Civil Disturbance Operations with a show of force Well, that's fucking illegal as shit. You can't use military to perform law enforcement actions, and a "show of force" is clearly a threat to use the force, which would be a law enforcement action, since a show of force is technically a responsive security measure. The military is only supposed to support law enforcement with things like medical care or what have you, but this falls clearly on the side of law enforcement. Edit: when I was in the Navy, we performed counter drug operations where the Coast Guard would legally "take over" the ship's command structure, temporarily, so we could legally perform law enforcement actions against drug boats thousands of miles from the USA. When we spotted the drug runners (by helo or intelligence), the Coasties would immediately become in legal command of the ship because any warnings over the radio (where we told them to stop or we'd shoot their engines) or shots to do so would be considered a law enforcement action since it was a "threat of force". We (the officers) were told if we did anything over the radio or even chased the boats before the Coastie Commanding Officer took over, we'd get court-martialed for some sort of violation of the US Constitution, no shit.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  > Well, that's fucking illegal as shit. You can't use military to perform law enforcement actions You can if they are National Guard called out by the governor.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  Haha what a clever end run around the rule. Just get a single Coast Guard officer in and you can enforce using the military. Reminds me of the fact that California has no civil asset forfeiture but the police have revshares with the feds and the feds can totally still do their civil asset forfeiture, so Californian police just route their stuff through the feds who take a cut. Very much in the hacker spirit. Also reminds me of that movie Sicario.
  - battery_cowboy 6y ago
    Yes, it was pretty much bullshit, I am not happy about my role back then.
civilsegfault 6y ago
Hey dang, the cities we live in are being destroyed before our eyes. How about doing us a solid and not burying this one, it's kind of important. Don't worry, we'll return to Go vs. Rust and other pressing matters as soon as possible.
nakedrobot2 6y ago
as KKPMW comments here, "Those protests are ripe for foreign influence escalating the situation." So are discussion pages like this, "ripe for foreign influence escalating the situation." Let's all be mindful of that.

38 points by AndrewBissell 6y ago

As they should. Those protests are ripe for foreign influence escalating the situation. USA knows this best of all with its history of amplifying civil unrest abroad in order to advance its geopolitical goals. For USA the most recent were the Honk-Kong protests which it used to try undermining China. So wondering how China will respond now. Russia might try promoting Black Lives Matter again to escalate the tensions. Then there is Iran too. Would be interesting to somehow get the list of all the players.

obilgic 6y ago
I wonder if this is why Trump, in one of his recent press briefings, just talked about Hong Kong.
- obilgic 6y ago
  HN, anything with "Trump" in it gets downvoted? smh
throwablePie 6y ago
I'm an African American living in Asia. I have lived in China. And I have experienced much more racism in America than in China. Some will not believe me so I'm prepared to prove it if necessary. Recently, certain politicians have made grave proclamations about people/thugs fighting for freedom in HK, Minneapolis, and other places around the world. It should be interesting and instructive to observe the cognitive dissonance and resulting contortions of U.S. and other Western politicians as they address this grave matter. I have observed that whenever some of my compatriots are presented with information that lies outside their regular programming, they label the messenger either a Chinese or Russian troll. This Australian woman has noticed this phenomenon: https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/03/19/liberal-npcs-hate-russia-conservative-npcs-hate-china/ https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/03/19/liberal-npcs-hate-ru... These could be as a result of foreign influence operations by the Russians or the Chinese. Then again, this effect might simply be the result of the online labors of America's equivalent of GCHQ's JTRIG: https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Threat_Research_Intelligence_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Threat_Research_Intellig... We (Americans) are the masters of "foreign influence operations."
- malandrew 6y ago
  I’m from South America and have lived in China (2 years) and the US (30 years) too and the only conclusion I can come to is that your post is likely one of the trolls this comment references. In the two years I lived in both rural Hebei and Beijing and in the time I spent traveling around the country, I witnessed far more elements of fascism (especially out in Kashgar and rural parts of Xinjiang) than the US that it’s not even close. If this comment was something someone had actual conviction about they wouldn’t be using a throwaway account.
  - throwablePie 6y ago
    You're entitled to an opinion. Even racists and JTRIG operatives have opinions. Quite often, racists are quick to dismiss black people's allegations of racism because they lack empathy... even when confronted with video evidence. One thing I noticed while living in China is that it's not usually Africans and African Americans who complain the most about Chinese racism against black people. No, sir! It's usually non-black racists who have experienced discrimination for the first time and finally found an opportunity to camouflage and justify their own racism against blacks, Asians, etc. by using the Chinese as a canvas on which they can paint a narrative. A person can travel to China (or elsewhere in Asia), date and marry the locals, have mixed race offspring and still have strong prejudice against Asians or other people of color. See for instance SerpentZA and Laowhy86 and their reactions to the physiognomy of their own children. And SerpentZA's expressed opinions on post-Apartheid South Africa. Are there racists in China? Of course there are. Is there rampant discrimination against non-Han people. Yes! People of all colors can be racist or ethnocentric. But is Chinese anti-black racism worse than American anti-black racism as the recent narratives have proclaimed? No! An emphatic "NO"! In China, most foreigners experience racism at some point during their stay. For a non-black person who has never experienced in-your-face racism, this has to be a jarring and disorienting experience. For a black person in China, particularly an American black person, it's just "meh" racism. The cops aren't trying to murder you for simply existing and no one will try to lock you up in prison forever for not being the right color. Granted, as in America, some people may not date you and some employers will not hire you due to the color of your skin, but the vast majority of Chinese will be warm and friendly toward you and they won't clutch their pearls when they encounter you day or night. So, in my opinion (as a black man) living in China was quite a refreshingly meh and relaxing experience. "I didn't even have to use my AK." Apparently, your experience varied and you hold a different opinion about the relative toxicity of Chinese and American racism. But, as you noted, we are different people. Welcome to racism for the inexperienced... it hurts, doesn't it? I feel for you but I will not apologize for living a different experience than explained by your programming or your privilege. If that makes me a "troll", so be it.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
GoodJokes 6y ago
Yes the military is definitley a de-escalation force

battery_cowboy 6y ago

> Augment MN State Patrol Civil Disturbance Operations with a show of force Well, that's fucking illegal as shit. You can't use military to perform law enforcement actions, and a "show of force" is clearly a threat to use the force, which would be a law enforcement action, since a show of force is technically a responsive security measure. The military is only supposed to support law enforcement with things like medical care or what have you, but this falls clearly on the side of law enforcement. Edit: when I was in the Navy, we performed counter drug operations where the Coast Guard would legally "take over" the ship's command structure, temporarily, so we could legally perform law enforcement actions against drug boats thousands of miles from the USA. When we spotted the drug runners (by helo or intelligence), the Coasties would immediately become in legal command of the ship because any warnings over the radio (where we told them to stop or we'd shoot their engines) or shots to do so would be considered a law enforcement action since it was a "threat of force". We (the officers) were told if we did anything over the radio or even chased the boats before the Coastie Commanding Officer took over, we'd get court-martialed for some sort of violation of the US Constitution, no shit.

MattGaiser 6y ago
> Well, that's fucking illegal as shit. You can't use military to perform law enforcement actions You can if they are National Guard called out by the governor.
renewiltord 6y ago
Haha what a clever end run around the rule. Just get a single Coast Guard officer in and you can enforce using the military. Reminds me of the fact that California has no civil asset forfeiture but the police have revshares with the feds and the feds can totally still do their civil asset forfeiture, so Californian police just route their stuff through the feds who take a cut. Very much in the hacker spirit. Also reminds me of that movie Sicario.
- battery_cowboy 6y ago
  Yes, it was pretty much bullshit, I am not happy about my role back then.

civilsegfault 6y ago

Hey dang, the cities we live in are being destroyed before our eyes. How about doing us a solid and not burying this one, it's kind of important. Don't worry, we'll return to Go vs. Rust and other pressing matters as soon as possible.

nakedrobot2 6y ago

as KKPMW comments here, "Those protests are ripe for foreign influence escalating the situation." So are discussion pages like this, "ripe for foreign influence escalating the situation." Let's all be mindful of that.