3 ms·

I've been trying to wrap my head around the 'viral load' theory too. This goes against the mainstream notion of what getting a virus means. I've never heard bef

I've been trying to wrap my head around the 'viral load' theory too. This goes against the mainstream notion of what getting a virus means. I've never heard before of people getting a worse case of flu because somebody else sneezed harder on them! It makes sense that with an initial small load the immune system might get a chance to wipe out the infection immediately. But I assumed that once infection does happen and cells start mass-producing the virus then it gets pumped into the whole body really fast. Turns out this might not be true and that the immune system ramps up response at the same pace regardless of the infection severity, which seems entirely unexpected?!

hcknwscommenter 6y ago
In a cell culture dish, if you hit a bunch of cells with a load of about 1 virus per cell, you get a really low number of infected cells. If you hit a bunch of cells with 10 virus per cell, you get really high infection rates. It is possible a similar thing happens in the body. And yes, the immune system can only ramp up so fast. There is a lot that has to happen between original recognition of the invader to neutralizing antibody production at scale. It's a weeks long process.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  Thing to consider the innate immune systems is always at work. Likely if it doesn't get overwhelmed or somehow evaded there is a chance it'll squash an infection by itself.
  - aaronchall 6y ago
    This thread makes the most sense to me. If you watch the videos of the particles people emit when sneezing or talking loudly, you'd be astonished (I was). Apparently these particles can hang in the air for very long periods of time and circulate throughout an enclosed space. It seems to me that the more of these particles you inhale, the more spots in your lungs they could land. If this thread is correct, the infection sites would be somewhat localized, especially to start. A person could potentially have one or two internal infection sites and their immune system respond in plenty time for them to avoid noticing the effects of the virus infections, whereas the same person could get many, many infection sites throughout their lungs, and then eventually be completely unable to breathe as each location slowly spreads to cover a large surface area of the lung. The implications are that anything you can do to reduce your chances of inhaling these particles increases your chances of not getting a noticeable infection. This means avoiding enclosed spaces with others and wearing masks. I wonder if masks will become the new style.
    - Izkata 6y ago
      > I wonder if masks will become the new style. Dunno how long it may persist, but it's definitely a thing people have on their mind: https://www.latimes.com/lifestyle/story/2020-05-29/17-options-matching-mask-outfits-summers-newest-fashion-trend https://www.latimes.com/lifestyle/story/2020-05-29/17-option...
    - Gibbon1 6y ago
      One bit I finally gleaned about masks. A suspicion is droplets contain more virus than aerosols. Droplets will settle out of the air quickly. But kicker, droplets can also dehydrate and shrink to aerosol size and persist. But they still contain the same dose of virus. Eeek! That part of why masks help prevent people from spreading. Because even shitty masks do a good job of stopping droplets. Before they dehydrate and become aerosols. Beyond theory there is a paper the showed the results of wearing masks by people with influenza, rhinovirus and common coronavirus. Result. Slight benefit for influenza. Don't work for rhinovirus. Works very well for coronavirus. I think the take away there is. Wearing masks prevents people from producing highly infections aerosols. And you should avoid spending long amounts of time in enclosed spaces with other people.
Gibbon1 6y ago
Thew whole idea is fascinating and there are also a limited number of real world studies (aka trying to infect people with live virus) to chose from. Influenza seems to have a threshold. If the dose is too low people don't get sick. At the threshold you see some people get sick and some people develop antibodies without symptoms.

hcknwscommenter 6y ago

In a cell culture dish, if you hit a bunch of cells with a load of about 1 virus per cell, you get a really low number of infected cells. If you hit a bunch of cells with 10 virus per cell, you get really high infection rates. It is possible a similar thing happens in the body. And yes, the immune system can only ramp up so fast. There is a lot that has to happen between original recognition of the invader to neutralizing antibody production at scale. It's a weeks long process.

Gibbon1 6y ago
Thing to consider the innate immune systems is always at work. Likely if it doesn't get overwhelmed or somehow evaded there is a chance it'll squash an infection by itself.
- aaronchall 6y ago
  This thread makes the most sense to me. If you watch the videos of the particles people emit when sneezing or talking loudly, you'd be astonished (I was). Apparently these particles can hang in the air for very long periods of time and circulate throughout an enclosed space. It seems to me that the more of these particles you inhale, the more spots in your lungs they could land. If this thread is correct, the infection sites would be somewhat localized, especially to start. A person could potentially have one or two internal infection sites and their immune system respond in plenty time for them to avoid noticing the effects of the virus infections, whereas the same person could get many, many infection sites throughout their lungs, and then eventually be completely unable to breathe as each location slowly spreads to cover a large surface area of the lung. The implications are that anything you can do to reduce your chances of inhaling these particles increases your chances of not getting a noticeable infection. This means avoiding enclosed spaces with others and wearing masks. I wonder if masks will become the new style.
  - Izkata 6y ago
    > I wonder if masks will become the new style. Dunno how long it may persist, but it's definitely a thing people have on their mind: https://www.latimes.com/lifestyle/story/2020-05-29/17-options-matching-mask-outfits-summers-newest-fashion-trend https://www.latimes.com/lifestyle/story/2020-05-29/17-option...
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    One bit I finally gleaned about masks. A suspicion is droplets contain more virus than aerosols. Droplets will settle out of the air quickly. But kicker, droplets can also dehydrate and shrink to aerosol size and persist. But they still contain the same dose of virus. Eeek! That part of why masks help prevent people from spreading. Because even shitty masks do a good job of stopping droplets. Before they dehydrate and become aerosols. Beyond theory there is a paper the showed the results of wearing masks by people with influenza, rhinovirus and common coronavirus. Result. Slight benefit for influenza. Don't work for rhinovirus. Works very well for coronavirus. I think the take away there is. Wearing masks prevents people from producing highly infections aerosols. And you should avoid spending long amounts of time in enclosed spaces with other people.

Gibbon1 6y ago

Thew whole idea is fascinating and there are also a limited number of real world studies (aka trying to infect people with live virus) to chose from. Influenza seems to have a threshold. If the dose is too low people don't get sick. At the threshold you see some people get sick and some people develop antibodies without symptoms.