4 ms·

My main problem with this is the fact that it's actually a crime punishable by jail sentences in many places in Europe. Call it an observation of human stupidi

by kloncks 16y ago

My main problem with this is the fact that it's actually a crime punishable by jail sentences in many places in Europe. Call it an observation of human stupidity, sure. But, last I checked, we don't jail people for being stupid or saying stupid things. edit: Something interesting I just thought of. A lot of Islamic & Arab countries have laws in place that punish "insulting Islam". A lot of these "insults" (see Jyllands-Posten) seem to come from Europe, who advocate a huge amount of free speech. How can the laws ban one instance of hate-speech and not another? Is Satire or Humor allowed? Again, if anyone can shed light on this matter, I'd appreciate it, but in countries like France or Germany, are there laws in place to protect against all kinds of hate-speech or just specifically Holocaust Denial?

mduerksen 16y ago
Yes, in Germany, open Holocaust denial is only one form of Volksverhetzung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksverhetzung http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksverhetzung) The reason that this is punished is not stupidity. Publicly spoken words are never just an personal opininion, but have the potential to influence other people, and can lead to violent actions. In that case, the german constitution holds that the safety and dignity of the targetted people (e.g. an ethnical group) outweigh the personal freedom of an individual. This trade-off has to be made somehow, and I would agree with the german constitution: personal freedom ends where other people get physically hurt or degraded.
- burgerbrain 16y ago
  "This trade-off has to be made somehow, and I would agree with the german constitution: personal freedom ends where other people get hurt or degraded." Merely hurt or degraded? That is one hell of a low bar.
  - mduerksen 16y ago
    With hurt, I meant physically hurt, thanks for letting me clarify. Updated my post.
    - burgerbrain 16y ago
      Ah, ok. That makes more sense.
tomjen3 16y ago
The interesting thing is that it is actually against Danish law to "threaten, taunt, etc" people based on their race, color, national or ethic origin, religious belief or sexual orientation (straffeloven paragraph 266) if the messages have been said (or printed) in public or with the intent of wide distribution. In 2003 four people were given suspended sentences for violating this law. In addition it is a violation of paragraph 140 to publicly taunt or make fun of the belief or (religious) practices of any legal religious society. Nobody has been punished under this paragraph since the late 30. But you are free to deny the holocaust or join a nazi group.

by kloncks 16y ago

mduerksen 16y ago

Yes, in Germany, open Holocaust denial is only one form of Volksverhetzung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksverhetzung http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksverhetzung) The reason that this is punished is not stupidity. Publicly spoken words are never just an personal opininion, but have the potential to influence other people, and can lead to violent actions. In that case, the german constitution holds that the safety and dignity of the targetted people (e.g. an ethnical group) outweigh the personal freedom of an individual. This trade-off has to be made somehow, and I would agree with the german constitution: personal freedom ends where other people get physically hurt or degraded.

burgerbrain 16y ago
"This trade-off has to be made somehow, and I would agree with the german constitution: personal freedom ends where other people get hurt or degraded." Merely hurt or degraded? That is one hell of a low bar.
- mduerksen 16y ago
  With hurt, I meant physically hurt, thanks for letting me clarify. Updated my post.
  - burgerbrain 16y ago
    Ah, ok. That makes more sense.

tomjen3 16y ago

The interesting thing is that it is actually against Danish law to "threaten, taunt, etc" people based on their race, color, national or ethic origin, religious belief or sexual orientation (straffeloven paragraph 266) if the messages have been said (or printed) in public or with the intent of wide distribution. In 2003 four people were given suspended sentences for violating this law. In addition it is a violation of paragraph 140 to publicly taunt or make fun of the belief or (religious) practices of any legal religious society. Nobody has been punished under this paragraph since the late 30. But you are free to deny the holocaust or join a nazi group.