4 ms·

I’m strongly in favor out stronger gun control but find your argument here reasonable. After a bit of googling I see that gun stores are indeed allowed to prov

I’m strongly in favor out stronger gun control but find your argument here reasonable. After a bit of googling I see that gun stores are indeed allowed to provide for curbside pickup and are open: http://reedsindoorrange.com/ http://reedsindoorrange.com/

jeffdavis 6y ago
It appears San Jose took a strong stance at least at one point: https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-san-jose-orders-gun-store-to-close-in-one-of-first-tests-of-essential-under-shelter-order/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-san-jose-... Not sure the current status, but I'm sure a lot of lawsuits happened.
- kmonsen 6y ago
  They wanted to stay fully open, not curbside delivery.
  - jeffdavis 6y ago
    I read the article I linked again and did not see any indication that Bullseye Bishop was given options to stay open. Where did you get that from?
    - kmonsen 6y ago
      Yeah it is unclear what the rules were/are, but at least now staying open for curbside delivery is an option. This whole thing took us all by surprise so I can understand if there were minor implementation details in the beginning.
  - Rebelgecko 6y ago
    The ATF guidance telling FFLs that curbside pickup was legal wasn't issued until April 10th
jeffdavis 6y ago
"I’m strongly in favor out stronger gun control but find your argument here reasonable." A few genuinely curious questions. First, would you rather there was just no 2nd Amendment at all? I can understand that point of view. Second, let's assume there is a right to bear arms, and that it's not going away. Do you think all of the little half measures are actually helpful? Stuff like how you can buy ammo, or what models of guns are acceptable, or what kind of grip or stock a rifle can have? Third: rifles. Not many killings happen with rifles. They are lower than knives, and behind even fists/feet[1], even in states with very permissive rifle laws. What do you think about removing pretty much all restrictions on rifles (and accessories, including suppressors[2]), and instead restricting pistols more heavily? [1] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-20 https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-... [2] For most rifles, a normal suppressor just reduces the sound from "instant permanent hearing damage" to "louder than a jackhammer and you still probably want hearing protection".
- kmonsen 6y ago
  Overall I would rather 2nd amendment would not exist and I don't think it belongs in a modern world (I am a retired soldier that has served abroad, and have gone to gun ranges to shoot). I think currently stronger background checks, strong penalties for selling guns outside of this and bans of large magazines and ways of reloading quickly. I would support some way of limiting open arms in public places, I do not think they belong in demonstrations or Subway stores and are often used to intimidate. I'm personally mostly OK with rifles, except automatic rifles with large capacity magazine. If you have a hunting rifle and it can be traced back to you, please have your fun. The parts I feel strongly about are strict background checks, weapons can be traced back, and should not be used for intimidation in protests. The rest are details and I am sure we can come to an agreement. In the weapon culture I come from if you point a weapon at someone, loaded or not, your are assumed to be hostile or an idiot that should not have a gun and will be met with extreme force.
  - jeffdavis 6y ago
    "I'm personally mostly OK with rifles, except automatic rifles with large capacity magazine." You mean semi-auto or fully-auto? I ask because many states in the stats I offered allow pretty much any semi-auto rifle to eligible people with little restriction, and the deaths are still lower than knives/fists. While I agree that some rifles are scary, the data just don't seem to justify restrictions on semi-auto rifles regardless of magazines. I think all states have laws against brandishing or threatening people with any weapon. I generally agree about background checks, but some laws are pretty extreme, where it prevents reasonable sharing, and I don't agree with that. I am not aware of any real problems with open carry demonstrations other than they make people uncomfortable. That doesn't seem like a great reason to pass a law, but I don't see a big problem having a law like that in city limits. You need ways to allow people to legally transport though, which should include walking.
scarface74 6y ago
Well, I use to be in favor of gun control. But, knowing what I do about the history of this country, any “War on Guns” will be just like the War on anything else, it will target minorities. We’ve already seen this in California. When the Black Panther Party legally started carrying guns, Reagan was quick to pass the Mulliford Act when he was governor - with the support of the NRA.
- masonic 6y ago
  Reagan was quick to pass the Mulliford (sic) Act Reagan signed the Mulford Act, but it would have become law without his signature anyway. It was passed in the Assembly and Senate, neither of which was controlled by his party.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    So that makes it a lot better. It’s not like Reagan reluctant signed it. He said that he saw no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons. But yes I am well aware that the Democrats have a racist past and were the major proponents of segregation in the south in the 60s. You act as if my mistrust of the government only occurs if the government is run by Republicans.
  - csdreamer7 6y ago
    > Reagan signed the Mulford Act, but it would have become law without his signature anyway. It was passed in the Assembly and Senate, neither of which was controlled by his party. A member of his party, Republican Assemblyman Don Mulford, was the one who introduced the Mulford act, which was named after him. Reagan openly supported the ban on open carry. If you are going to split hairs on which party did which, you should mention who actually introduced the bill. https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

jeffdavis 6y ago

It appears San Jose took a strong stance at least at one point: https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-san-jose-orders-gun-store-to-close-in-one-of-first-tests-of-essential-under-shelter-order/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-san-jose-... Not sure the current status, but I'm sure a lot of lawsuits happened.

kmonsen 6y ago
They wanted to stay fully open, not curbside delivery.
- jeffdavis 6y ago
  I read the article I linked again and did not see any indication that Bullseye Bishop was given options to stay open. Where did you get that from?
  - kmonsen 6y ago
    Yeah it is unclear what the rules were/are, but at least now staying open for curbside delivery is an option. This whole thing took us all by surprise so I can understand if there were minor implementation details in the beginning.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  The ATF guidance telling FFLs that curbside pickup was legal wasn't issued until April 10th

jeffdavis 6y ago

"I’m strongly in favor out stronger gun control but find your argument here reasonable." A few genuinely curious questions. First, would you rather there was just no 2nd Amendment at all? I can understand that point of view. Second, let's assume there is a right to bear arms, and that it's not going away. Do you think all of the little half measures are actually helpful? Stuff like how you can buy ammo, or what models of guns are acceptable, or what kind of grip or stock a rifle can have? Third: rifles. Not many killings happen with rifles. They are lower than knives, and behind even fists/feet[1], even in states with very permissive rifle laws. What do you think about removing pretty much all restrictions on rifles (and accessories, including suppressors[2]), and instead restricting pistols more heavily? [1] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-20 https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-... [2] For most rifles, a normal suppressor just reduces the sound from "instant permanent hearing damage" to "louder than a jackhammer and you still probably want hearing protection".

kmonsen 6y ago
Overall I would rather 2nd amendment would not exist and I don't think it belongs in a modern world (I am a retired soldier that has served abroad, and have gone to gun ranges to shoot). I think currently stronger background checks, strong penalties for selling guns outside of this and bans of large magazines and ways of reloading quickly. I would support some way of limiting open arms in public places, I do not think they belong in demonstrations or Subway stores and are often used to intimidate. I'm personally mostly OK with rifles, except automatic rifles with large capacity magazine. If you have a hunting rifle and it can be traced back to you, please have your fun. The parts I feel strongly about are strict background checks, weapons can be traced back, and should not be used for intimidation in protests. The rest are details and I am sure we can come to an agreement. In the weapon culture I come from if you point a weapon at someone, loaded or not, your are assumed to be hostile or an idiot that should not have a gun and will be met with extreme force.
- jeffdavis 6y ago
  "I'm personally mostly OK with rifles, except automatic rifles with large capacity magazine." You mean semi-auto or fully-auto? I ask because many states in the stats I offered allow pretty much any semi-auto rifle to eligible people with little restriction, and the deaths are still lower than knives/fists. While I agree that some rifles are scary, the data just don't seem to justify restrictions on semi-auto rifles regardless of magazines. I think all states have laws against brandishing or threatening people with any weapon. I generally agree about background checks, but some laws are pretty extreme, where it prevents reasonable sharing, and I don't agree with that. I am not aware of any real problems with open carry demonstrations other than they make people uncomfortable. That doesn't seem like a great reason to pass a law, but I don't see a big problem having a law like that in city limits. You need ways to allow people to legally transport though, which should include walking.

scarface74 6y ago

Well, I use to be in favor of gun control. But, knowing what I do about the history of this country, any “War on Guns” will be just like the War on anything else, it will target minorities. We’ve already seen this in California. When the Black Panther Party legally started carrying guns, Reagan was quick to pass the Mulliford Act when he was governor - with the support of the NRA.

masonic 6y ago
Reagan was quick to pass the Mulliford (sic) Act Reagan signed the Mulford Act, but it would have become law without his signature anyway. It was passed in the Assembly and Senate, neither of which was controlled by his party.
- scarface74 6y ago
  So that makes it a lot better. It’s not like Reagan reluctant signed it. He said that he saw no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons. But yes I am well aware that the Democrats have a racist past and were the major proponents of segregation in the south in the 60s. You act as if my mistrust of the government only occurs if the government is run by Republicans.
- csdreamer7 6y ago
  > Reagan signed the Mulford Act, but it would have become law without his signature anyway. It was passed in the Assembly and Senate, neither of which was controlled by his party. A member of his party, Republican Assemblyman Don Mulford, was the one who introduced the Mulford act, which was named after him. Reagan openly supported the ban on open carry. If you are going to split hairs on which party did which, you should mention who actually introduced the bill. https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act