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Are you advocating gun stores have to remain open for the right of the people to own a gun? Why would anybody need a gun right now while their biggest life tre

Are you advocating gun stores have to remain open for the right of the people to own a gun? Why would anybody need a gun right now while their biggest life treat is a virus? Please lord more riots with more people having guns would be a plead from Anders Breivik. Does that guy have internet these days?

nsajko 6y ago
I think the argument is just about unfair discrimination.
briffle 6y ago
During the shutdown, police in my area had severe staffing issues, and flat out said they would only come out for the most serious crime. At the same time, huge numbers of people were released from prison.
toast0 6y ago
> Are you advocating gun stores have to remain open for the right of the people to own a gun? How am I supposed to bear arms if I can't obtain arms? I think it's fairly reasonable to close gun shops if all other stores are closed, but there's no reason not to allow gun shops to open under the same terms as other shops. Maybe pickup / curbside only, maybe strict simultaneous customer limits, whatever. > Why would anybody need a gun right now while their biggest life treat is a virus? I personally don't think more guns help to deescalate situations, but there's like a lot of unrest, and some people think guns can be used to protect themselves from rioters, riot police, instigators, or some combination of the three.
- kmonsen 6y ago
  I’m strongly in favor out stronger gun control but find your argument here reasonable. After a bit of googling I see that gun stores are indeed allowed to provide for curbside pickup and are open: http://reedsindoorrange.com/ http://reedsindoorrange.com/
  - jeffdavis 6y ago
    It appears San Jose took a strong stance at least at one point: https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-san-jose-orders-gun-store-to-close-in-one-of-first-tests-of-essential-under-shelter-order/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-san-jose-... Not sure the current status, but I'm sure a lot of lawsuits happened.
    - kmonsen 6y ago
      They wanted to stay fully open, not curbside delivery.
      - jeffdavis 6y ago
        I read the article I linked again and did not see any indication that Bullseye Bishop was given options to stay open. Where did you get that from?
        kmonsen 6y ago
        Yeah it is unclear what the rules were/are, but at least now staying open for curbside delivery is an option. This whole thing took us all by surprise so I can understand if there were minor implementation details in the beginning.
      - Rebelgecko 6y ago
        The ATF guidance telling FFLs that curbside pickup was legal wasn't issued until April 10th
  - jeffdavis 6y ago
    "I’m strongly in favor out stronger gun control but find your argument here reasonable." A few genuinely curious questions. First, would you rather there was just no 2nd Amendment at all? I can understand that point of view. Second, let's assume there is a right to bear arms, and that it's not going away. Do you think all of the little half measures are actually helpful? Stuff like how you can buy ammo, or what models of guns are acceptable, or what kind of grip or stock a rifle can have? Third: rifles. Not many killings happen with rifles. They are lower than knives, and behind even fists/feet[1], even in states with very permissive rifle laws. What do you think about removing pretty much all restrictions on rifles (and accessories, including suppressors[2]), and instead restricting pistols more heavily? [1] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-20 https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-... [2] For most rifles, a normal suppressor just reduces the sound from "instant permanent hearing damage" to "louder than a jackhammer and you still probably want hearing protection".
jeffdavis 6y ago
You actually want the gun stores to remain open. Why? Because closing them just feeds into the hoarding mentality that causes people to buy irrational numbers of guns when they are available. If someone feels like they can walk into a gun store any time they want and buy a gun with no hassle, they won't be in any rush. And for certain kinds of people, there's a big element of "the government doesn't want me to have this thing... here's a pile of cash, I'll take 12 and stick it to 'em". Since you asked, the right to keep and bear arms includes the ability of ellegible people to buy them, along with ammunition, and make use of practice/training facilities. Part of having a right means you don't need to explain it to anyone else. You can exercise your right, and if someone is curious why you did what you did (past tense), then you can choose to explain it to them. Nobody gets to ask "why" as a condition of exercising a right; otherwise it's not a right, it's a privilege.
0x8BADF00D 6y ago
Legally purchased firearms are rarely used to do something illegal. That would be stupid, they have your name and address. I see no reason why a gun store can’t remain open. Or any store for that matter. It should be up to that business to decide social distancing protocols and mask wearing. If you don’t agree with how that store operates, don’t shop at it. Simple.

nsajko 6y ago

I think the argument is just about unfair discrimination.

briffle 6y ago

During the shutdown, police in my area had severe staffing issues, and flat out said they would only come out for the most serious crime. At the same time, huge numbers of people were released from prison.

toast0 6y ago

> Are you advocating gun stores have to remain open for the right of the people to own a gun? How am I supposed to bear arms if I can't obtain arms? I think it's fairly reasonable to close gun shops if all other stores are closed, but there's no reason not to allow gun shops to open under the same terms as other shops. Maybe pickup / curbside only, maybe strict simultaneous customer limits, whatever. > Why would anybody need a gun right now while their biggest life treat is a virus? I personally don't think more guns help to deescalate situations, but there's like a lot of unrest, and some people think guns can be used to protect themselves from rioters, riot police, instigators, or some combination of the three.

kmonsen 6y ago
I’m strongly in favor out stronger gun control but find your argument here reasonable. After a bit of googling I see that gun stores are indeed allowed to provide for curbside pickup and are open: http://reedsindoorrange.com/ http://reedsindoorrange.com/
- jeffdavis 6y ago
  It appears San Jose took a strong stance at least at one point: https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-san-jose-orders-gun-store-to-close-in-one-of-first-tests-of-essential-under-shelter-order/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-san-jose-... Not sure the current status, but I'm sure a lot of lawsuits happened.
  - kmonsen 6y ago
    They wanted to stay fully open, not curbside delivery.
    - jeffdavis 6y ago
      I read the article I linked again and did not see any indication that Bullseye Bishop was given options to stay open. Where did you get that from?
      - kmonsen 6y ago
        Yeah it is unclear what the rules were/are, but at least now staying open for curbside delivery is an option. This whole thing took us all by surprise so I can understand if there were minor implementation details in the beginning.
    - Rebelgecko 6y ago
      The ATF guidance telling FFLs that curbside pickup was legal wasn't issued until April 10th
- jeffdavis 6y ago
  "I’m strongly in favor out stronger gun control but find your argument here reasonable." A few genuinely curious questions. First, would you rather there was just no 2nd Amendment at all? I can understand that point of view. Second, let's assume there is a right to bear arms, and that it's not going away. Do you think all of the little half measures are actually helpful? Stuff like how you can buy ammo, or what models of guns are acceptable, or what kind of grip or stock a rifle can have? Third: rifles. Not many killings happen with rifles. They are lower than knives, and behind even fists/feet[1], even in states with very permissive rifle laws. What do you think about removing pretty much all restrictions on rifles (and accessories, including suppressors[2]), and instead restricting pistols more heavily? [1] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-20 https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-... [2] For most rifles, a normal suppressor just reduces the sound from "instant permanent hearing damage" to "louder than a jackhammer and you still probably want hearing protection".

jeffdavis 6y ago

You actually want the gun stores to remain open. Why? Because closing them just feeds into the hoarding mentality that causes people to buy irrational numbers of guns when they are available. If someone feels like they can walk into a gun store any time they want and buy a gun with no hassle, they won't be in any rush. And for certain kinds of people, there's a big element of "the government doesn't want me to have this thing... here's a pile of cash, I'll take 12 and stick it to 'em". Since you asked, the right to keep and bear arms includes the ability of ellegible people to buy them, along with ammunition, and make use of practice/training facilities. Part of having a right means you don't need to explain it to anyone else. You can exercise your right, and if someone is curious why you did what you did (past tense), then you can choose to explain it to them. Nobody gets to ask "why" as a condition of exercising a right; otherwise it's not a right, it's a privilege.

0x8BADF00D 6y ago

Legally purchased firearms are rarely used to do something illegal. That would be stupid, they have your name and address. I see no reason why a gun store can’t remain open. Or any store for that matter. It should be up to that business to decide social distancing protocols and mask wearing. If you don’t agree with how that store operates, don’t shop at it. Simple.