4 ms·
Stephen Pinker. Hans Rosling.
by frabbit 6y ago
Stephen Pinker. Hans Rosling.
- Trasmatta 6y agoAre they actually mainstream anywhere other than places like HackerNews? I feel like the majority of the mainstream info I see is on the opposite side, where everything is always terrible.
- frabbit 6y agoI have no measurements to share with you on that question, but I think Pinker is mainstream, NPR, NYT background thought.
- Lammy 6y agoI think this guy might have a pretty mainstream audience: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/02/04/trump-touts-his-economy-best-ever-data-is-more-mixed/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/02/04/trump-tou...
- oblio 6y agoI don't know about the first one, but Rosling is right. The world as a whole is doing better than it ever has. If you, personally, are about to be hit by a 2 ton truck, that's probably of not much comfort to you. But it doesn't make him wrong.
- frabbit 6y agoAbout 10 years now before irreversible climate change. After that any of the gains of the last 50 years will be eliminated. The (grudging and pitiably disproportionately small) increases in supply of food and medical support to the developing world were based on an extreme and rapid expansion of CO2 emitting industrial production. Unfortunately that comes with some (forseeable) consequences.
- oblio 6y agoI have a hunch conspiracy theorists aren't really worried about global warming :-)
- frabbit 6y agoFrom what I have read they are concerned about it being a complete lie made up by others in order to facilitate their oppression. That makes it a huge problem for anyone that believes that climate destruction is something that needs to be solved co-operatively. Or we can keep on laughing and sneering at people that don't think the same thoughts as us. I wonder how that will work out?
- oblio 6y agoThe thing is, there are always loonies. Catering to them doesn't work. Society has advanced by putting in place rules to not abuse them (human rights, constituons, etc) but otherwise ignoring them politically. 100% consensus based politics has destroyed entire countries.
- frabbit 6y agoHas society advanced? By what metric?
- oblio 6y agoLife expectancy, mortality rates for infants, nutrition, eradication of treatable diseases, ... Most things we can measure are better. Individual happiness, that's P = NP.
- frabbit 6y agoSo, then you agree with the proposition that in general society has advanced, life is better and that most intelligent and reasonable people share that unarguable view? And yet you wonder why people who are seeing declining life expectancy, poor nutrition and probable long-term unemployment react against the statement of that view as applying to them? https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2019/12/02/middle-age-death https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2019/12/02/middle-ag...
- frabbit 6y agoJust out of interest: you posed the question 'who is claiming that things are universally better?' and you are now acknowledging that you are aware of the arguments of a very mainstream (TED Talks, etc) source. Why did you pose that question in response to the OP's explanation that some people are frustrated at the disconnect between their lives and the very standard narrative of a world which has benefitted from 'progress' in recent history?
- oblio 6y agoBecause there is a huge burden of proof when you say "universally". It's disingenuous to make claims such as those about Rosling. Risking was basically fighting the 24/7 negative news cycle but it would be ridiculous to claim he said everyone was better off. What he was saying was: things aren't going to crap as you keep hearing and reading and statistically (key word: statistically!), for the whole globe, things are kind of looking up.
- frabbit 6y agoDo you think that your introduction of the word 'universally' accurately reflected the ideas expressed by the person to whom you were responding?