5 ms·

I donate blood semi-regularly, and they have been hammering my inbox lately about giving again. I am sure donations have dried up and the reserves are low, but

by daenz 6y ago

I donate blood semi-regularly, and they have been hammering my inbox lately about giving again. I am sure donations have dried up and the reserves are low, but I am wondering, if I unknowingly had C19 and recovered, would the blood donation banks profit from this?

ken 6y ago
The blood bank “profits” from every donation. That’s what a donation is. If you’re asking if they specifically test plasma for COVID-19 antibodies and scalp it to brokers, my guess is “probably not”. My blood bank has documentation about the disease tests they do, and they say nothing about testing for COVID-19 in particular.
- disabled 6y ago
  > The blood bank “profits” from every donation. That’s what a donation is. This especially applies for plasma donations, even though plasma donors (often poor people, and predominantly in the US) are paid for their donations (although a meager amount considering what is involved along with the side effects of plasmapheresis). Basically the US effectively supplies the majority of blood products for the world, and plasma is a precious human resource. The US also has extremely lax rules on plasma donation. There have been scandals relatively recently around paid plasma, where Mexican nationals on visitor visas cross the border 2-3 times a week to do this. The donations can in some cases be enough income to get by in Mexico (or so I heard, but probably not well). This is important due to cartel violence, as it is considered to be "safer". However, watch the video on this page which details the scandal: https://www.propublica.org/article/pharmaceutical-companies-are-luring-mexicans-across-the-u.s.-border-to-donate-blood-plasma https://www.propublica.org/article/pharmaceutical-companies-... The 2 main people in this video, Mexican nationals, ended up having severe health effects from the frequent (and legal) plasma donation route. In fact, the female in the video literally had a secondary immune deficiency from donating plasma so much, and if she continues (she was advised not to, by a Mexican doctor) she definitely can end up with a primary immune deficiency and other severe health problems. Sure, plasma donations are necessary (I require a blood product due to a rare neurological disease affecting my peripheral nervous system) but it is some really sad stuff, too. > If you’re asking if they specifically test plasma for COVID-19 antibodies and scalp it to brokers Sometimes these plasma companies do test regular donors for certain (often rare) antibodies, such as for whatever shot that is given to Rh negative mothers who are pregnant with a child that could be Rh positive.
  - dehrmann 6y ago
    > Sometimes these plasma companies do test regular donors for certain (often rare) antibodies, such as for whatever shot that is given to Rh negative mothers who are pregnant with a child that could be Rh positive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harrison_(blood_donor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harrison_(blood_donor) This guy is in Wikipedia for being a blood donor. He's estimated to have saved 2.4 million lives.
  - ken 6y ago
    There seems to be a big difference between “plasma companies”, and nonprofit research institutes which collect blood donations. I know factually that many people are paid for plasma, and that there’s a reason for it, but I’ve never been, and the concept feels very strange to me. The American Red Cross says plasma can be donated every 28 days, and my local blood bank follows this guideline. Donating twice a week is insane. Plasmapheresis is safe. Undergoing any procedure 10 times more frequently than recommended by doctors is a recipe for trouble.
- dehrmann 6y ago
  Why would they have to disclose all the tests they do?
  - ken 6y ago
    They don’t. I’m simply reporting that they speak openly of their current research projects, like Zika and Dengue. I don’t see any reason they would keep quiet on a much more common disease.
- dehrmann 6y ago
  I get how there's a fear that paid donations would encourage people to either over-donate or people who shouldn't donate to donate, but it also feels sketchy that between patients, hospitals, middlemen, and collectors, money's exchanging hands at every level except the donor.
  - disabled 6y ago
    Yeah, that is absolutely correct. I am not blaming the individuals here, and often they do not have any other choice. The plasma companies have quite the history involving scandals see: https://web.archive.org/web/20170401035608/http://taintedblood.info/timeline.php?mode=latest&launch=true https://web.archive.org/web/20170401035608/http://taintedblo... Generally blood products derived from plasma cost about double for the exact same quantity in the US, compared to other developed countries with universal healthcare (excluding Switzerland). For example, the going rate for the blood product I take, in the developed world, is 40 Euro per gram (roughly $50/gram). My US health insurance pays out (not what is being billed by the provider--which is way, way more), under contract, $100/gram for the blood product. I take around a couple hundred to a few hundred grams per month. So, yes, even that alone is scandalous.
disabled 6y ago
Absolutely, many of the plasma companies have joined a coalition to streamline donations from COVID-19 positive patients in the US. The US supplies the majority of blood products derived from plasma (in this case antibodies) overall, to the rest of the world. The US is literally the OPEC of plasma donations, although there are serious ethical concerns about how lax the rules are regarding donation frequency and how it is monitored. There have also been recent scandals. See: https://www.propublica.org/article/pharmaceutical-companies-are-luring-mexicans-across-the-u.s.-border-to-donate-blood-plasma https://www.propublica.org/article/pharmaceutical-companies-... (specifically watch the video) Some of those companies believe that they will have a hyper-immune (A shot that is given to somebody that is COVID-19 positive, to help them recover. It is literally pooled COVID-19 antibodies from several donors, so antibody levels are as not as big of a deal compared to getting an "infusion" of convalescent plasma from a single donor. But antibody levels still do matter!) COVID-19 product to use by July, although it will still need to go through clinical trials. We are literally one of the few countries in the world equipped to do this and scale it, due to our plasma donation infrastructure (however, it exploits the poor, and that is tragic). As somebody who takes a plasma product containing antibodies from thousands of donors (subcutaneous immunoglobulin) due to a rare chronic health condition , I would be surprised if the hyperimmune COVID-19 product was found NOT to be effective.
- vinay427 6y ago
  I've never heard of these companies that pay donors and every donation that I have been to was whole blood or RBC, administered by the Red Cross (in the US and otherwise). Would what you wrote apply to a lesser degree for whole blood or red blood cell donations? I'm sure they make a profit on any type of blood donations but as it's ostensibly a non-profit I would assume most of it gets funneled back into funding other Red Cross services, but now I'm actually curious.
  - disabled 6y ago
    It really only applies to plasma donations. Plasma donations outside of the Red Cross and other nonprofits are usually paid. This plasma is made into blood products (as in medicines that are approved by a government regulatory body), and is facilitated by plasma companies (almost always publicly traded companies on the stock market), who own these plasma donation centers which pay the donors. They also create the blood product and get the regulatory body approval (like via the FDA) for the medicine that they bring to market. Here is a website about it, but I would take it with a grain of salt as this is from the coalition of plasma companies themselves: https://www.donatingplasma.org/donation/plasma https://www.donatingplasma.org/donation/plasma How Blood-Plasma Companies Target the Poorest Americans: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/03/plasma-donations/555599/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/03/plasma-... The plasma companies have experienced their share of scandals too: https://web.archive.org/web/20170401035608/http://taintedblood.info/timeline.php?mode=latest&launch=true https://web.archive.org/web/20170401035608/http://taintedblo... In more recent times: https://www.propublica.org/article/pharmaceutical-companies-are-luring-mexicans-across-the-u.s.-border-to-donate-blood-plasma https://www.propublica.org/article/pharmaceutical-companies-...
Vinnl 6y ago
This might be different per country, but in the Netherlands (where you do not get paid for donating), they've specifically said that while they're performing research on the spread of the virus, their testing is not accurate enough to detect individual cases - so I presume they wouldn't be able to profit from those either.

by daenz 6y ago

ken 6y ago

The blood bank “profits” from every donation. That’s what a donation is. If you’re asking if they specifically test plasma for COVID-19 antibodies and scalp it to brokers, my guess is “probably not”. My blood bank has documentation about the disease tests they do, and they say nothing about testing for COVID-19 in particular.

disabled 6y ago
> The blood bank “profits” from every donation. That’s what a donation is. This especially applies for plasma donations, even though plasma donors (often poor people, and predominantly in the US) are paid for their donations (although a meager amount considering what is involved along with the side effects of plasmapheresis). Basically the US effectively supplies the majority of blood products for the world, and plasma is a precious human resource. The US also has extremely lax rules on plasma donation. There have been scandals relatively recently around paid plasma, where Mexican nationals on visitor visas cross the border 2-3 times a week to do this. The donations can in some cases be enough income to get by in Mexico (or so I heard, but probably not well). This is important due to cartel violence, as it is considered to be "safer". However, watch the video on this page which details the scandal: https://www.propublica.org/article/pharmaceutical-companies-are-luring-mexicans-across-the-u.s.-border-to-donate-blood-plasma https://www.propublica.org/article/pharmaceutical-companies-... The 2 main people in this video, Mexican nationals, ended up having severe health effects from the frequent (and legal) plasma donation route. In fact, the female in the video literally had a secondary immune deficiency from donating plasma so much, and if she continues (she was advised not to, by a Mexican doctor) she definitely can end up with a primary immune deficiency and other severe health problems. Sure, plasma donations are necessary (I require a blood product due to a rare neurological disease affecting my peripheral nervous system) but it is some really sad stuff, too. > If you’re asking if they specifically test plasma for COVID-19 antibodies and scalp it to brokers Sometimes these plasma companies do test regular donors for certain (often rare) antibodies, such as for whatever shot that is given to Rh negative mothers who are pregnant with a child that could be Rh positive.
- dehrmann 6y ago
  > Sometimes these plasma companies do test regular donors for certain (often rare) antibodies, such as for whatever shot that is given to Rh negative mothers who are pregnant with a child that could be Rh positive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harrison_(blood_donor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harrison_(blood_donor) This guy is in Wikipedia for being a blood donor. He's estimated to have saved 2.4 million lives.
- ken 6y ago
  There seems to be a big difference between “plasma companies”, and nonprofit research institutes which collect blood donations. I know factually that many people are paid for plasma, and that there’s a reason for it, but I’ve never been, and the concept feels very strange to me. The American Red Cross says plasma can be donated every 28 days, and my local blood bank follows this guideline. Donating twice a week is insane. Plasmapheresis is safe. Undergoing any procedure 10 times more frequently than recommended by doctors is a recipe for trouble.
dehrmann 6y ago
Why would they have to disclose all the tests they do?
- ken 6y ago
  They don’t. I’m simply reporting that they speak openly of their current research projects, like Zika and Dengue. I don’t see any reason they would keep quiet on a much more common disease.
dehrmann 6y ago
I get how there's a fear that paid donations would encourage people to either over-donate or people who shouldn't donate to donate, but it also feels sketchy that between patients, hospitals, middlemen, and collectors, money's exchanging hands at every level except the donor.
- disabled 6y ago
  Yeah, that is absolutely correct. I am not blaming the individuals here, and often they do not have any other choice. The plasma companies have quite the history involving scandals see: https://web.archive.org/web/20170401035608/http://taintedblood.info/timeline.php?mode=latest&launch=true https://web.archive.org/web/20170401035608/http://taintedblo... Generally blood products derived from plasma cost about double for the exact same quantity in the US, compared to other developed countries with universal healthcare (excluding Switzerland). For example, the going rate for the blood product I take, in the developed world, is 40 Euro per gram (roughly $50/gram). My US health insurance pays out (not what is being billed by the provider--which is way, way more), under contract, $100/gram for the blood product. I take around a couple hundred to a few hundred grams per month. So, yes, even that alone is scandalous.

disabled 6y ago

Absolutely, many of the plasma companies have joined a coalition to streamline donations from COVID-19 positive patients in the US. The US supplies the majority of blood products derived from plasma (in this case antibodies) overall, to the rest of the world. The US is literally the OPEC of plasma donations, although there are serious ethical concerns about how lax the rules are regarding donation frequency and how it is monitored. There have also been recent scandals. See: https://www.propublica.org/article/pharmaceutical-companies-are-luring-mexicans-across-the-u.s.-border-to-donate-blood-plasma https://www.propublica.org/article/pharmaceutical-companies-... (specifically watch the video) Some of those companies believe that they will have a hyper-immune (A shot that is given to somebody that is COVID-19 positive, to help them recover. It is literally pooled COVID-19 antibodies from several donors, so antibody levels are as not as big of a deal compared to getting an "infusion" of convalescent plasma from a single donor. But antibody levels still do matter!) COVID-19 product to use by July, although it will still need to go through clinical trials. We are literally one of the few countries in the world equipped to do this and scale it, due to our plasma donation infrastructure (however, it exploits the poor, and that is tragic). As somebody who takes a plasma product containing antibodies from thousands of donors (subcutaneous immunoglobulin) due to a rare chronic health condition , I would be surprised if the hyperimmune COVID-19 product was found NOT to be effective.

vinay427 6y ago
I've never heard of these companies that pay donors and every donation that I have been to was whole blood or RBC, administered by the Red Cross (in the US and otherwise). Would what you wrote apply to a lesser degree for whole blood or red blood cell donations? I'm sure they make a profit on any type of blood donations but as it's ostensibly a non-profit I would assume most of it gets funneled back into funding other Red Cross services, but now I'm actually curious.
- disabled 6y ago
  It really only applies to plasma donations. Plasma donations outside of the Red Cross and other nonprofits are usually paid. This plasma is made into blood products (as in medicines that are approved by a government regulatory body), and is facilitated by plasma companies (almost always publicly traded companies on the stock market), who own these plasma donation centers which pay the donors. They also create the blood product and get the regulatory body approval (like via the FDA) for the medicine that they bring to market. Here is a website about it, but I would take it with a grain of salt as this is from the coalition of plasma companies themselves: https://www.donatingplasma.org/donation/plasma https://www.donatingplasma.org/donation/plasma How Blood-Plasma Companies Target the Poorest Americans: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/03/plasma-donations/555599/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/03/plasma-... The plasma companies have experienced their share of scandals too: https://web.archive.org/web/20170401035608/http://taintedblood.info/timeline.php?mode=latest&launch=true https://web.archive.org/web/20170401035608/http://taintedblo... In more recent times: https://www.propublica.org/article/pharmaceutical-companies-are-luring-mexicans-across-the-u.s.-border-to-donate-blood-plasma https://www.propublica.org/article/pharmaceutical-companies-...

Vinnl 6y ago

This might be different per country, but in the Netherlands (where you do not get paid for donating), they've specifically said that while they're performing research on the spread of the virus, their testing is not accurate enough to detect individual cases - so I presume they wouldn't be able to profit from those either.