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Another fellow Minnesotan here and former Minneapolis resident (used to live a mile away from Hiawatha and Lake back in the day). >Characterizing what is happe

Another fellow Minnesotan here and former Minneapolis resident (used to live a mile away from Hiawatha and Lake back in the day). >Characterizing what is happening as an edge case is a huge mistake. People do not spontaneously start protesting with so much anger if it hasn't built up over so long. These protests are at least partly drummed up by out of state agitators, and are implicitly condoned by a feckless and weak state and local government that would rather give ground (literally) than enforce the rule of law. Saying "enough is enough" means going to the polls, not burning down all of the businesses in your neighborhood that were already on the verge of collapse thanks to the pandemic. That people are making up excuses for this behavior is disturbing to me, and signals that America is farther along the path of Imperial collapse than I previously thought. What end do you think we end up with here by condoning this? Agitators taking over City Hall? Disbanding the police department? Please don't excuse burning down entire neighborhoods. Thanks.

komali2 6y ago
Why did the cops shoot tear gas at peaceful protestors yesterday, when they didn't two weeks ago when armed militia stormed the statehouse? The cops brought this on themselves. There's nobody to blame here but them.
- remarkEon 6y ago
  Because the "armed militia" that "stormed" the statehouse had no designs on doing any harm. It's really that simple. The "protestors" that got some tear gas shot at them went on to burn down some buildings that had nothing to do with this tragedy. You gonna blame them or nah?
  - komali2 6y ago
    Lol. The protests started peaceful. There were no calls to burn down a police station. The first window shattered was done so by an undercover cop. The first violent action taken was by the cops. So the people responded in turn. Nope, I don't blame them. They tried kneeling, so the president got a football player fired. They tried peacefully protesting, the cops showed up armed to the teeth and fired at people with plastic bullets and tear gas. There's a video of a parade of cop cars driving by protestors, the last of which indiscriminately sprayed pepper spray into the crowd. Lmao. The very audacity of your comment.
    - remarkEon 6y ago
      >There were no calls to burn down a police station. This must be a joke. If you watched any live feed from the last couple days there are countless examples of people calling for exactly that. >They tried kneeling, so the president got a football player fired. Yeah and the next logical step here is to burn down businesses, probably run by immigrants no less. I stand by my previous statement that America is farther on the path toward collapse than I previously surmised, given the "audacity" of commenters like you who seem to enjoy cheering on destruction and death.
      - pm90 6y ago
        Please don’t do this here. Demonizing HN users or blaming them for systemic issues while trying to have an honest conversation is totally uncalled for.
      - komali2 6y ago
        Say what you want, the protests were peaceful until the cops started firing off tear gas. The videos are there for all to see. Regardless, we shouldn't be surprised at the levels people will go when you grind their noses into the dirt for four hundred years. The law enforcement arm of the government brought this upon itself.
      - kelnos 6y ago
        > I stand by my previous statement that America is farther on the path toward collapse than I previously surmised I don't disagree with you, but I feel that the blame lies with the government, not with the rioting people who are just tired of the government arbitrarily executing people in the street whenever they feel like it. And please don't give me the usual nonsense about "you get what you vote for". The level of real disenfranchisement in this country is staggering.
  - pm90 6y ago
    The armed militia had actual guns. If they were tear gassed at a whim like the protesters were, I imagine the reaction would be different.
testbot123 6y ago
"I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection." - MLK
- remarkEon 6y ago
  Ah, yes, I'm in the wrong here because I hope for order and not chaos. And someone will pull an MLK quote out of a hat to say as much.
  - testbot123 6y ago
    You're failing to understand that the ordered system of justice that you're prescribing only works for a small portion of (wealthy, powerful) American society, because the processes of that order are intertwined with a systematic, institutionalized effort to deprive minorities of rights. People are fed up with trying to work inside of a system that barely considers them human.
    - remarkEon 6y ago
      So it's anarchy then, huh. I think what you're failing to understand is that your kind of rhetoric is directly adjacent to the standard communist revolutionary rhetoric employed across e.g. South America. >People are fed up with trying to work inside of a system that barely considers them human. Amazing that people actually believe this, when there's literally laws on the books making it a crime to commit an offense against protected classes of people because of their race alone.
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> These protests are at least partly drummed up by out of state agitators This is a scary response. We saw, today, a black CNN reporter arrested by state police on live television. If that’s how an educated, gently-speaking, Constitutionally-protected member of the press is treated, there is a root issue festering. Blaming it on agitators deflects from introspection. A big part of the problem is Minneapolis’s moderates have turned a blind eye to the problems in their police force for years. That civic neglect has consequences. Those consequences are coming home to roost.
- remarkEon 6y ago
  If you watched an of the live feeds from the last two nights there are plenty of people who announce that they're from e.g. Nebraska and part of some Antifa faction. >A big part of the problem is Minneapolis’s moderates have turned a blind eye to the problems in their police force for years. I don't understand how people can honestly think this is true. The Police Commissioner is literally the guy from Internal Affairs who filed a lawsuit against the city for not promoting black officers fast enough. The state attorney general is the guy who has proudly photographed himself with an anarchist handbook. All across state and local government in Minnesota you find people who are, allegedly, the kind that are supposed to address the "civic neglect" you assume to exist. What more do you want?
  - freeone3000 6y ago
    For police to stop killing unarmed people. If I knelt on someone's neck for five minutes, I wouldn't get two days at home! Police need to be held to a higher standard, not a lower one.
  - outworlder 6y ago
    > The Police Commissioner is literally the guy from Internal Affairs who filed a lawsuit against the city for not promoting black officers fast enough. Looking after their own. Should I give them a cookie too and a belly rub? The protests are not about officer promotions.
    - 6y ago
vkou 6y ago
> These protests are at least partly drummed up by out of state agitators, and are implicitly condoned by a feckless and weak state and local government that would rather give ground (literally) than enforce the rule of law. Its primary failure in enforcing the rule of law has been its inability to enforce it on police officers. What we're seeing is the consequence of decades of lawless behavior by police. People have had enough of being terrorized by it.
kelnos 6y ago
I don't think people are condoning or encouraging rioting, but are pointing out that violence is completely expected given the degree of disenfranchisement people feel in these situations. "Going to the polls" hasn't worked. Allowing the courts to dispense justice has done anything but that. What then? People get frustrated and angry, correctly feel like they have no voice and no options, so they unfortunately resort to violence. Local businesses being destroyed is a horrible outcome of this, but I can't even make myself feel bad about the police precinct burning. (I do feel very bad for and worry about the safety of firefighters.) If you want to blame anyone, blame the police for getting us to where we are today.
hnick 6y ago
> Saying "enough is enough" means going to the polls What if voter suppression or gerrymandering exists? What if no candidate wants to address police brutality? What if issues are easily forgotten over a multi-year cycle with a complicit media? Rioting shouldn't be a first choice, but polls don't fix everything.

komali2 6y ago

Why did the cops shoot tear gas at peaceful protestors yesterday, when they didn't two weeks ago when armed militia stormed the statehouse? The cops brought this on themselves. There's nobody to blame here but them.

remarkEon 6y ago
Because the "armed militia" that "stormed" the statehouse had no designs on doing any harm. It's really that simple. The "protestors" that got some tear gas shot at them went on to burn down some buildings that had nothing to do with this tragedy. You gonna blame them or nah?
- komali2 6y ago
  Lol. The protests started peaceful. There were no calls to burn down a police station. The first window shattered was done so by an undercover cop. The first violent action taken was by the cops. So the people responded in turn. Nope, I don't blame them. They tried kneeling, so the president got a football player fired. They tried peacefully protesting, the cops showed up armed to the teeth and fired at people with plastic bullets and tear gas. There's a video of a parade of cop cars driving by protestors, the last of which indiscriminately sprayed pepper spray into the crowd. Lmao. The very audacity of your comment.
  - remarkEon 6y ago
    >There were no calls to burn down a police station. This must be a joke. If you watched any live feed from the last couple days there are countless examples of people calling for exactly that. >They tried kneeling, so the president got a football player fired. Yeah and the next logical step here is to burn down businesses, probably run by immigrants no less. I stand by my previous statement that America is farther on the path toward collapse than I previously surmised, given the "audacity" of commenters like you who seem to enjoy cheering on destruction and death.
    - pm90 6y ago
      Please don’t do this here. Demonizing HN users or blaming them for systemic issues while trying to have an honest conversation is totally uncalled for.
    - komali2 6y ago
      Say what you want, the protests were peaceful until the cops started firing off tear gas. The videos are there for all to see. Regardless, we shouldn't be surprised at the levels people will go when you grind their noses into the dirt for four hundred years. The law enforcement arm of the government brought this upon itself.
    - kelnos 6y ago
      > I stand by my previous statement that America is farther on the path toward collapse than I previously surmised I don't disagree with you, but I feel that the blame lies with the government, not with the rioting people who are just tired of the government arbitrarily executing people in the street whenever they feel like it. And please don't give me the usual nonsense about "you get what you vote for". The level of real disenfranchisement in this country is staggering.
- pm90 6y ago
  The armed militia had actual guns. If they were tear gassed at a whim like the protesters were, I imagine the reaction would be different.

testbot123 6y ago

"I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection." - MLK

remarkEon 6y ago
Ah, yes, I'm in the wrong here because I hope for order and not chaos. And someone will pull an MLK quote out of a hat to say as much.
- testbot123 6y ago
  You're failing to understand that the ordered system of justice that you're prescribing only works for a small portion of (wealthy, powerful) American society, because the processes of that order are intertwined with a systematic, institutionalized effort to deprive minorities of rights. People are fed up with trying to work inside of a system that barely considers them human.
  - remarkEon 6y ago
    So it's anarchy then, huh. I think what you're failing to understand is that your kind of rhetoric is directly adjacent to the standard communist revolutionary rhetoric employed across e.g. South America. >People are fed up with trying to work inside of a system that barely considers them human. Amazing that people actually believe this, when there's literally laws on the books making it a crime to commit an offense against protected classes of people because of their race alone.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

> These protests are at least partly drummed up by out of state agitators This is a scary response. We saw, today, a black CNN reporter arrested by state police on live television. If that’s how an educated, gently-speaking, Constitutionally-protected member of the press is treated, there is a root issue festering. Blaming it on agitators deflects from introspection. A big part of the problem is Minneapolis’s moderates have turned a blind eye to the problems in their police force for years. That civic neglect has consequences. Those consequences are coming home to roost.

remarkEon 6y ago
If you watched an of the live feeds from the last two nights there are plenty of people who announce that they're from e.g. Nebraska and part of some Antifa faction. >A big part of the problem is Minneapolis’s moderates have turned a blind eye to the problems in their police force for years. I don't understand how people can honestly think this is true. The Police Commissioner is literally the guy from Internal Affairs who filed a lawsuit against the city for not promoting black officers fast enough. The state attorney general is the guy who has proudly photographed himself with an anarchist handbook. All across state and local government in Minnesota you find people who are, allegedly, the kind that are supposed to address the "civic neglect" you assume to exist. What more do you want?
- freeone3000 6y ago
  For police to stop killing unarmed people. If I knelt on someone's neck for five minutes, I wouldn't get two days at home! Police need to be held to a higher standard, not a lower one.
- outworlder 6y ago
  > The Police Commissioner is literally the guy from Internal Affairs who filed a lawsuit against the city for not promoting black officers fast enough. Looking after their own. Should I give them a cookie too and a belly rub? The protests are not about officer promotions.
  - 6y ago

vkou 6y ago

> These protests are at least partly drummed up by out of state agitators, and are implicitly condoned by a feckless and weak state and local government that would rather give ground (literally) than enforce the rule of law. Its primary failure in enforcing the rule of law has been its inability to enforce it on police officers. What we're seeing is the consequence of decades of lawless behavior by police. People have had enough of being terrorized by it.

kelnos 6y ago

I don't think people are condoning or encouraging rioting, but are pointing out that violence is completely expected given the degree of disenfranchisement people feel in these situations. "Going to the polls" hasn't worked. Allowing the courts to dispense justice has done anything but that. What then? People get frustrated and angry, correctly feel like they have no voice and no options, so they unfortunately resort to violence. Local businesses being destroyed is a horrible outcome of this, but I can't even make myself feel bad about the police precinct burning. (I do feel very bad for and worry about the safety of firefighters.) If you want to blame anyone, blame the police for getting us to where we are today.

hnick 6y ago

> Saying "enough is enough" means going to the polls What if voter suppression or gerrymandering exists? What if no candidate wants to address police brutality? What if issues are easily forgotten over a multi-year cycle with a complicit media? Rioting shouldn't be a first choice, but polls don't fix everything.