5 ms·

What I don't understand is why many of these small businesses — which have items of value to many people — were targeted. To me, that's burning to burn, damagin

by joshmn 6y ago

What I don't understand is why many of these small businesses — which have items of value to many people — were targeted. To me, that's burning to burn, damaging to damage, and looting to loot. https://www.startribune.com/these-minneapolis-st-paul-buildings-are-damaged-looted-after-george-floyd-protests/569930671/ https://www.startribune.com/these-minneapolis-st-paul-buildi... This is my home. I visit many of these businesses. I do business with two owners on that list. There are groups of people out here who, yes, are looting to loot and burning to burn. I understand burning down the precinct though. I'm not upset about that.

daeken 6y ago
To some extent, they were burned/looted/otherwise harmed because they were there. But on the other hand, you have things like this experimental Target whose whole purpose in that (very impoverished) neighborhood was to develop new LP techniques, aimed at putting more people of color in prison: https://twitter.com/IanColdwater/status/1265867904844693505 https://twitter.com/IanColdwater/status/1265867904844693505 Target is complicit in this systemic disease; I have zero sympathy for them.
- dmitrygr 6y ago
  Isn't LP more about "Loss Prevention"? I am pretty sure Target does not care about imprisoning anyone.
- _-david-_ 6y ago
  Target is complicit in racism for trying to stop people from stealing from them? Do you have any evidence that Target systematically lets white people steal from them while calling the cops on non-whites? Would would you only try to stop somebody who is stealing from you if they were white? If so that would be quite racist! Trying to stop anybody regardless of their race from stealing from you is not racist. Regardless, according to the tweet you posted the policy is targeting poor people not people of color. 40% of poor in the US are non-hispanic whites. That means this policy would presumably also be targeting a huge number of white people as well.
  - mindslight 6y ago
    "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." The larger point is the dystopian dynamic of developing a store that is poised against its customers, especially as a testing ground. Technologically defended islands of wealth in the middle of seas of poverty. And the blame isn't even on Target specifically, but the system as a whole that is creating so much suffering in the first place.
    - _-david-_ 6y ago
      >"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." What other interpretation am I to draw? The person I was responded to said Target was intentionally creating new policies to put people of color in jail. If anything the person I was responding to is the one that needs to take a more plausible explanation of what Target was doing. >The larger point is the dystopian dynamic of developing a store meant to be deliberately poised against its customers, especially as a testing ground. Stopping thieves is pro-customer. Stores have to mark up the price of the goods they sell to cover the losses from thieves. If less people stole then the price of goods would be less. I also don't consider a thief to be a customer. Anti-thief is not necessarily anti-customer. >Technologically defended islands of wealth in the middle of seas of poverty. Completely unrelated to the topic of Target and possible racism. Do you have a look on your door? That is a technology that is defending your wealth. Why not leave your front door wide open and let anybody come in and take anything they want? I am guessing you dislike other people's wealth but are fine with your own. >And the blame isn't even on Target specifically, but the system as a whole that is creating so much suffering in the first place. The person I was responding to said "Target is complicit in this systemic disease; I have zero sympathy for them." This seems pretty direct in the accusation that Target is guilty. If he doesn't think the blame is on Target then he would presumably have some level of sympathy for them.
      - mindslight 6y ago
        If you can't avoid reflexively jumping on phrases long enough to see the parallels to a common sci-fi theme, then there's no conversation to be had. All I can say is that if you want conservative thought to remain relevant, try applying it where it can be useful. Hint: the breakdown in law and order here started with the police department itself.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
  I will admit that I had to re-read this argument. Are you suggesting that Target is racist, because it employs loss prevention tactics? I will admit that this is an odd conversation for me. In a sense, it feels almost as alien as a guy telling me that I owe him reperations by virtue of being in US. Could you elaborate more? It is possible, I am not getting this.
eunoia 6y ago
It’s almost as if rage is an overpowering emotion that is unlikely to stay narrowly targeted. Edit: this was unnecessarily flippant. Real lives are being horrifically affected and I truly feel for your community.
HarryHirsch 6y ago
We were promised change when a Minneapolis policeman killed a tourist three years ago. If the good citizens of Minneapolis has insisted that there be change, today there wouldn't be problems.
hnick 6y ago
Is there a (real or perceived) class divide in the area? Just curious because I don't know, but I remember in prior riots some people explained that rioters felt like business owners were on a different level to residents and taking advantage of them in various ways like higher prices or not employing locals, so that helped paint them as targets.

by joshmn 6y ago

daeken 6y ago

To some extent, they were burned/looted/otherwise harmed because they were there. But on the other hand, you have things like this experimental Target whose whole purpose in that (very impoverished) neighborhood was to develop new LP techniques, aimed at putting more people of color in prison: https://twitter.com/IanColdwater/status/1265867904844693505 https://twitter.com/IanColdwater/status/1265867904844693505 Target is complicit in this systemic disease; I have zero sympathy for them.

dmitrygr 6y ago
Isn't LP more about "Loss Prevention"? I am pretty sure Target does not care about imprisoning anyone.
_-david-_ 6y ago
Target is complicit in racism for trying to stop people from stealing from them? Do you have any evidence that Target systematically lets white people steal from them while calling the cops on non-whites? Would would you only try to stop somebody who is stealing from you if they were white? If so that would be quite racist! Trying to stop anybody regardless of their race from stealing from you is not racist. Regardless, according to the tweet you posted the policy is targeting poor people not people of color. 40% of poor in the US are non-hispanic whites. That means this policy would presumably also be targeting a huge number of white people as well.
- mindslight 6y ago
  "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." The larger point is the dystopian dynamic of developing a store that is poised against its customers, especially as a testing ground. Technologically defended islands of wealth in the middle of seas of poverty. And the blame isn't even on Target specifically, but the system as a whole that is creating so much suffering in the first place.
  - _-david-_ 6y ago
    >"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." What other interpretation am I to draw? The person I was responded to said Target was intentionally creating new policies to put people of color in jail. If anything the person I was responding to is the one that needs to take a more plausible explanation of what Target was doing. >The larger point is the dystopian dynamic of developing a store meant to be deliberately poised against its customers, especially as a testing ground. Stopping thieves is pro-customer. Stores have to mark up the price of the goods they sell to cover the losses from thieves. If less people stole then the price of goods would be less. I also don't consider a thief to be a customer. Anti-thief is not necessarily anti-customer. >Technologically defended islands of wealth in the middle of seas of poverty. Completely unrelated to the topic of Target and possible racism. Do you have a look on your door? That is a technology that is defending your wealth. Why not leave your front door wide open and let anybody come in and take anything they want? I am guessing you dislike other people's wealth but are fine with your own. >And the blame isn't even on Target specifically, but the system as a whole that is creating so much suffering in the first place. The person I was responding to said "Target is complicit in this systemic disease; I have zero sympathy for them." This seems pretty direct in the accusation that Target is guilty. If he doesn't think the blame is on Target then he would presumably have some level of sympathy for them.
    - mindslight 6y ago
      If you can't avoid reflexively jumping on phrases long enough to see the parallels to a common sci-fi theme, then there's no conversation to be had. All I can say is that if you want conservative thought to remain relevant, try applying it where it can be useful. Hint: the breakdown in law and order here started with the police department itself.
A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
I will admit that I had to re-read this argument. Are you suggesting that Target is racist, because it employs loss prevention tactics? I will admit that this is an odd conversation for me. In a sense, it feels almost as alien as a guy telling me that I owe him reperations by virtue of being in US. Could you elaborate more? It is possible, I am not getting this.

eunoia 6y ago

It’s almost as if rage is an overpowering emotion that is unlikely to stay narrowly targeted. Edit: this was unnecessarily flippant. Real lives are being horrifically affected and I truly feel for your community.

HarryHirsch 6y ago

We were promised change when a Minneapolis policeman killed a tourist three years ago. If the good citizens of Minneapolis has insisted that there be change, today there wouldn't be problems.

hnick 6y ago

Is there a (real or perceived) class divide in the area? Just curious because I don't know, but I remember in prior riots some people explained that rioters felt like business owners were on a different level to residents and taking advantage of them in various ways like higher prices or not employing locals, so that helped paint them as targets.