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Police helicopters don't have hellfire missiles as standard optional armament. Also police helicopters are operated by local/state forces. This is a federal a

by r00fus 6y ago

Police helicopters don't have hellfire missiles as standard optional armament. Also police helicopters are operated by local/state forces. This is a federal agency which is way out of its jurisdiction.

stult 6y ago
> Police helicopters don't have hellfire missiles as standard optional armament. I mean, they could. And firefighting planes could be rerigged to disperse chemical weapons, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them existing. >Also police helicopters are operated by local/state forces. This is a federal agency which is way out of its jurisdiction. I'm guessing it's on loan. It's hardly unusual or questionable for the feds to provide assistance to local police during periods of extraordinary crisis. However justified the people of Minneapolis may be in reacting this way to yet another police homicide, what else are the local police supposed to do now except try to restore order using whatever tools are available? Including drones that can provide immediate information about hotspots, crowds, fires, etc.
- dv_dt 6y ago
  Perhaps this is too political, but the only tool they actually needed was one they had the whole time. Charge the offices based upon the evidence and open a more detailed investigation. The military equipment was entirely unnecessary - but it's very availability makes opportunity for bad decisions.
  - meragrin_ 6y ago
    In all probability, union rules stand in the way of making any quick arrests. Their hands are tied. It is better for them to appear slow and do things by the book than try to appease the irrational mob. They'll eventually get to where the mob wants to go rather than ending up with the cops "winning" in some way due violations of union rules and procedures.
    - HarryHirsch 6y ago
      It's hard to see why union rules would trump criminal procedure - if that were true the cops would really be a law above the law. You'd think the much delayed arrest was so that the suspects had time to scrub social media, get rid of Nazi paraphernalia, get their stories straight, that kind of thing. They can't get their fellow officers in trouble, that's part of their code.
      - luckylion 6y ago
        Or, hear me out, the "delayed" arrests are so they don't make mistakes that would result in a mistrial because they don't want you to jump up and yell "they intentionally violated their rights so the judge would throw the case out".
        HarryHirsch 6y ago
        There was more than enough probable cause for arrest, and after the perp has been arrested, prosecution has 72 hours to build a case and press charges. This is just more of the usual, also because the career of the prosecutor depends on the goodwill of the cops.
      - meragrin_ 6y ago
        It is a government position. It requires training and interactions which may cause death. If a person were trained to restrain a person in a manner which has a high likelihood to cause death and not informed of the risks, should the incorrectly trained person really be held liable for the person's death?
        michaelmrose 6y ago
        As I sit here trying to imagine the manner it which someone could come to the same conclusion as you I find myself unequal to the task. I don't know how it is possible for a person to come to the same conclusion after watching the tape. It took 8 minuted for him to die 3 minutes of which he was unresponsive while people warned the cop and asked him to stop. The victim informed the murderer of exactly how he was being murdered and asked him to stop. He called out for his mother then stopped speaking at all while he died in silence. The method he was being killed would have been completely obvious to anyone who possessed a pair of lungs or understood how breathing worked. Nobody gives precisely one hot damn what manner of training he received. It was obvious he was murdering his victim to a human of ordinary capability. The logical conclusion is that he didn't care or wanted to murder him.
ip26 6y ago
Are you sure? Police use military surplus helicopters, such as the Cobra and Black Hawk, both of which can be armed with hellfires.
- dogma1138 6y ago
  Which police forces use Cobra helicopters? These are gunships that have no utility what so ever. As for Blackhawks I’ve never seen them used by police forces, those in civilian use are not surplus military helicopters or even the UH-60 but rather it’s civilian version the Sikorsky S-70 which are used by fire departments and search and rescue crews.
  - snypher 6y ago
    The Mexican Federal Police operate 6 Blackhawks provided by the US CBP. But it would be fair to say they serve a more militarized role than say Seattle PD. https://youtu.be/mBTs6BGMa3U https://youtu.be/mBTs6BGMa3U
    - dogma1138 6y ago
      I see nothing wrong with Blackhawks in civilian use they are one of the best medium transport helicopters out there. SAR, medevac, fire fightings etc. are all roles that the Blackhawk is perfectly suited for and all for which it has dedicated variants. As for law enforcement use again I don’t see a problem with it, the use of them is mostly restricted to very special cases (FBI/DEA etc) due to cost of both the aircraft itself and the operational costs. The Mexican federal police is indeed essentially an army at this point since they engage in paramilitary operations against the cartels. On the other hand Cobras have no use other than to spray a target with their auto cannon or missiles. So I was really curious what police force in the US or anyone is operating attack helicopters.
  - ip26 6y ago
    Sorry, mixed up UH-1 and AH-1. https://www.army.mil/article/180593/last_uh_1_huey_a_42_year_military_veteran_retires https://www.army.mil/article/180593/last_uh_1_huey_a_42_year... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zunO6iUVUT0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zunO6iUVUT0
kube-system 6y ago
Do 70mm rockets count? https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/Local-police-well-armed-with-surplus-military-5724525.php https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/Local-police-... But really, there's little difference between a lot of civilian and light military aircraft. The Bell 206 that your local news station probably flies around was developed as a military helicopter.
- cameldrv 6y ago
  The police aren't getting the 70mm rockets, or the launchers for them nor are the police pilots trained to use them. There's really almost no difference between the civilian Bell 204/212 and the military Huey, and Bell has sold lots of civilian Hueys. I really can't see what the problem would be with the military surplussing them to the police.
Simulacra 6y ago
I don't think this drone has any hellfire missiles. While it's true, it could, it's not a stretch to imagine a door mounted machine gun on a police helicopter. Both can be used for peace, or war.
2019-nCoV 6y ago
The local forces failed (rather told to stand down) in Minneapolis. You really think they'd let the city just burn to the ground before bringing federal agencies?

by r00fus 6y ago

stult 6y ago

> Police helicopters don't have hellfire missiles as standard optional armament. I mean, they could. And firefighting planes could be rerigged to disperse chemical weapons, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them existing. >Also police helicopters are operated by local/state forces. This is a federal agency which is way out of its jurisdiction. I'm guessing it's on loan. It's hardly unusual or questionable for the feds to provide assistance to local police during periods of extraordinary crisis. However justified the people of Minneapolis may be in reacting this way to yet another police homicide, what else are the local police supposed to do now except try to restore order using whatever tools are available? Including drones that can provide immediate information about hotspots, crowds, fires, etc.

dv_dt 6y ago
Perhaps this is too political, but the only tool they actually needed was one they had the whole time. Charge the offices based upon the evidence and open a more detailed investigation. The military equipment was entirely unnecessary - but it's very availability makes opportunity for bad decisions.
- meragrin_ 6y ago
  In all probability, union rules stand in the way of making any quick arrests. Their hands are tied. It is better for them to appear slow and do things by the book than try to appease the irrational mob. They'll eventually get to where the mob wants to go rather than ending up with the cops "winning" in some way due violations of union rules and procedures.
  - HarryHirsch 6y ago
    It's hard to see why union rules would trump criminal procedure - if that were true the cops would really be a law above the law. You'd think the much delayed arrest was so that the suspects had time to scrub social media, get rid of Nazi paraphernalia, get their stories straight, that kind of thing. They can't get their fellow officers in trouble, that's part of their code.
    - luckylion 6y ago
      Or, hear me out, the "delayed" arrests are so they don't make mistakes that would result in a mistrial because they don't want you to jump up and yell "they intentionally violated their rights so the judge would throw the case out".
      - HarryHirsch 6y ago
        There was more than enough probable cause for arrest, and after the perp has been arrested, prosecution has 72 hours to build a case and press charges. This is just more of the usual, also because the career of the prosecutor depends on the goodwill of the cops.
    - meragrin_ 6y ago
      It is a government position. It requires training and interactions which may cause death. If a person were trained to restrain a person in a manner which has a high likelihood to cause death and not informed of the risks, should the incorrectly trained person really be held liable for the person's death?
      - michaelmrose 6y ago
        As I sit here trying to imagine the manner it which someone could come to the same conclusion as you I find myself unequal to the task. I don't know how it is possible for a person to come to the same conclusion after watching the tape. It took 8 minuted for him to die 3 minutes of which he was unresponsive while people warned the cop and asked him to stop. The victim informed the murderer of exactly how he was being murdered and asked him to stop. He called out for his mother then stopped speaking at all while he died in silence. The method he was being killed would have been completely obvious to anyone who possessed a pair of lungs or understood how breathing worked. Nobody gives precisely one hot damn what manner of training he received. It was obvious he was murdering his victim to a human of ordinary capability. The logical conclusion is that he didn't care or wanted to murder him.

ip26 6y ago

Are you sure? Police use military surplus helicopters, such as the Cobra and Black Hawk, both of which can be armed with hellfires.

dogma1138 6y ago
Which police forces use Cobra helicopters? These are gunships that have no utility what so ever. As for Blackhawks I’ve never seen them used by police forces, those in civilian use are not surplus military helicopters or even the UH-60 but rather it’s civilian version the Sikorsky S-70 which are used by fire departments and search and rescue crews.
- snypher 6y ago
  The Mexican Federal Police operate 6 Blackhawks provided by the US CBP. But it would be fair to say they serve a more militarized role than say Seattle PD. https://youtu.be/mBTs6BGMa3U https://youtu.be/mBTs6BGMa3U
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    I see nothing wrong with Blackhawks in civilian use they are one of the best medium transport helicopters out there. SAR, medevac, fire fightings etc. are all roles that the Blackhawk is perfectly suited for and all for which it has dedicated variants. As for law enforcement use again I don’t see a problem with it, the use of them is mostly restricted to very special cases (FBI/DEA etc) due to cost of both the aircraft itself and the operational costs. The Mexican federal police is indeed essentially an army at this point since they engage in paramilitary operations against the cartels. On the other hand Cobras have no use other than to spray a target with their auto cannon or missiles. So I was really curious what police force in the US or anyone is operating attack helicopters.
- ip26 6y ago
  Sorry, mixed up UH-1 and AH-1. https://www.army.mil/article/180593/last_uh_1_huey_a_42_year_military_veteran_retires https://www.army.mil/article/180593/last_uh_1_huey_a_42_year... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zunO6iUVUT0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zunO6iUVUT0

kube-system 6y ago

Do 70mm rockets count? https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/Local-police-well-armed-with-surplus-military-5724525.php https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/Local-police-... But really, there's little difference between a lot of civilian and light military aircraft. The Bell 206 that your local news station probably flies around was developed as a military helicopter.

cameldrv 6y ago
The police aren't getting the 70mm rockets, or the launchers for them nor are the police pilots trained to use them. There's really almost no difference between the civilian Bell 204/212 and the military Huey, and Bell has sold lots of civilian Hueys. I really can't see what the problem would be with the military surplussing them to the police.

Simulacra 6y ago

I don't think this drone has any hellfire missiles. While it's true, it could, it's not a stretch to imagine a door mounted machine gun on a police helicopter. Both can be used for peace, or war.

2019-nCoV 6y ago

The local forces failed (rather told to stand down) in Minneapolis. You really think they'd let the city just burn to the ground before bringing federal agencies?