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Fellow HN user, I welcome you with warmth so please don't take what I say offensively, but as a different perspective. > What happened is awful. It doesn't ref

by pm90 6y ago

Fellow HN user, I welcome you with warmth so please don't take what I say offensively, but as a different perspective. > What happened is awful. It doesn't reflect how genuinely kind people in Minnesota are and how we, collectively feel about what happened and the movement at large. There will always be edge-cases as there is with any situation in any context. But for everyone that I've known, for everyone I've met and encountered with in Minnesota, when I look back at my time spent on either coast I always have found the people in Minnesota to be great. Characterizing what is happening as an edge case is a huge mistake. People do not spontaneously start protesting with so much anger if it hasn't built up over so long. The police do not act with such impunity against citizens "just in this off case". It needs to be systemic for the reactions to be this strong. If you haven't experienced this personally, that's great! I will not question your experiences. But please understand that others have not had the same experience. They've had such a bad experience that they're willing to go out in the streets during a pandemic to say "enough is enough". The police have had enough experience to be well prepared with crowd control tools and to use them immediately on peaceful protestors, when they could have de-escalated. People don't burn down a building they consider a symbol of tyranny just because of a single incident; their experience so far has ingrained into them a deep hatred for the police who are meant to protect and serve them. As others in this thread have said, please try to listen to other perspectives. People experience different realities, and all of them can coexist without having to disprove the other.

mythrwy 6y ago
The anger is justified. Protests are justified. Maybe even violent protests, if not justified, are understandable. Looting and burning unrelated businesses have no justification whatsoever.
- evanlivingston 6y ago
  This comments reads as "god save capitalism. Everything is justified unless dollars are burned in the process."
  - mythrwy 6y ago
    More like "god save common sense and basic human decency" WTF is the matter with people?
    - komali2 6y ago
      May you never experience the generations long frustration of any of the people driven to burn down a police station just to get their voices heard.
    - mythrwy 6y ago
      May you never experience having your livelihood burnt down because of an unrelated issue. It seriously blows my mind anyone does think this is justified or supports it. That is way beyond reason, even from an understandably aggrieved point of view.
      - pasquinelli 6y ago
        I'm not in favor of burning and looting, but i'm not convinced it wasn't kicked off by the cops, gladio style. If we ever found that out, it won't be for decades, at which point anyone who talks about it becomes a crackpot going on about ancient history. Once burning and looting starts, well it's like fire, or panic buying.
    - evanlivingston 6y ago
      A group of people who are systematically disenfranchised witnessed a visceral oppression committed by the guardians of that system. They are now extremely upset and frustrated and expressing their anger and frustration at a system that for a long time now made snail's pace progress toward equitable treatment of them. The police largely function as protectors of personal property and relationships of ownership. I mean, look at the very reason that the cops arrested George Floyd; an alleged fake $20 dollar bill. In a time of pandemic 4 police offers showed up to enforce the ownership of capital. Those guys who the state dispatched to enforce the value of money then ended up killing a guy. Its quite possible that the people who are rioting and protesting feel pretty damn angry at their treatment under capitalism and don't give a damn ownership of resources right now. They might even feel angry about ownership of resources in general. This is their community, and I suspect it's not yours. They get to decide their relationship to owners of resources, not you.
remarkEon 6y ago
Another fellow Minnesotan here and former Minneapolis resident (used to live a mile away from Hiawatha and Lake back in the day). >Characterizing what is happening as an edge case is a huge mistake. People do not spontaneously start protesting with so much anger if it hasn't built up over so long. These protests are at least partly drummed up by out of state agitators, and are implicitly condoned by a feckless and weak state and local government that would rather give ground (literally) than enforce the rule of law. Saying "enough is enough" means going to the polls, not burning down all of the businesses in your neighborhood that were already on the verge of collapse thanks to the pandemic. That people are making up excuses for this behavior is disturbing to me, and signals that America is farther along the path of Imperial collapse than I previously thought. What end do you think we end up with here by condoning this? Agitators taking over City Hall? Disbanding the police department? Please don't excuse burning down entire neighborhoods. Thanks.
- komali2 6y ago
  Why did the cops shoot tear gas at peaceful protestors yesterday, when they didn't two weeks ago when armed militia stormed the statehouse? The cops brought this on themselves. There's nobody to blame here but them.
  - remarkEon 6y ago
    Because the "armed militia" that "stormed" the statehouse had no designs on doing any harm. It's really that simple. The "protestors" that got some tear gas shot at them went on to burn down some buildings that had nothing to do with this tragedy. You gonna blame them or nah?
    - komali2 6y ago
      Lol. The protests started peaceful. There were no calls to burn down a police station. The first window shattered was done so by an undercover cop. The first violent action taken was by the cops. So the people responded in turn. Nope, I don't blame them. They tried kneeling, so the president got a football player fired. They tried peacefully protesting, the cops showed up armed to the teeth and fired at people with plastic bullets and tear gas. There's a video of a parade of cop cars driving by protestors, the last of which indiscriminately sprayed pepper spray into the crowd. Lmao. The very audacity of your comment.

by pm90 6y ago

mythrwy 6y ago

The anger is justified. Protests are justified. Maybe even violent protests, if not justified, are understandable. Looting and burning unrelated businesses have no justification whatsoever.

evanlivingston 6y ago
This comments reads as "god save capitalism. Everything is justified unless dollars are burned in the process."
- mythrwy 6y ago
  More like "god save common sense and basic human decency" WTF is the matter with people?
  - komali2 6y ago
    May you never experience the generations long frustration of any of the people driven to burn down a police station just to get their voices heard.
  - mythrwy 6y ago
    May you never experience having your livelihood burnt down because of an unrelated issue. It seriously blows my mind anyone does think this is justified or supports it. That is way beyond reason, even from an understandably aggrieved point of view.
    - pasquinelli 6y ago
      I'm not in favor of burning and looting, but i'm not convinced it wasn't kicked off by the cops, gladio style. If we ever found that out, it won't be for decades, at which point anyone who talks about it becomes a crackpot going on about ancient history. Once burning and looting starts, well it's like fire, or panic buying.
  - evanlivingston 6y ago
    A group of people who are systematically disenfranchised witnessed a visceral oppression committed by the guardians of that system. They are now extremely upset and frustrated and expressing their anger and frustration at a system that for a long time now made snail's pace progress toward equitable treatment of them. The police largely function as protectors of personal property and relationships of ownership. I mean, look at the very reason that the cops arrested George Floyd; an alleged fake $20 dollar bill. In a time of pandemic 4 police offers showed up to enforce the ownership of capital. Those guys who the state dispatched to enforce the value of money then ended up killing a guy. Its quite possible that the people who are rioting and protesting feel pretty damn angry at their treatment under capitalism and don't give a damn ownership of resources right now. They might even feel angry about ownership of resources in general. This is their community, and I suspect it's not yours. They get to decide their relationship to owners of resources, not you.

remarkEon 6y ago

Another fellow Minnesotan here and former Minneapolis resident (used to live a mile away from Hiawatha and Lake back in the day). >Characterizing what is happening as an edge case is a huge mistake. People do not spontaneously start protesting with so much anger if it hasn't built up over so long. These protests are at least partly drummed up by out of state agitators, and are implicitly condoned by a feckless and weak state and local government that would rather give ground (literally) than enforce the rule of law. Saying "enough is enough" means going to the polls, not burning down all of the businesses in your neighborhood that were already on the verge of collapse thanks to the pandemic. That people are making up excuses for this behavior is disturbing to me, and signals that America is farther along the path of Imperial collapse than I previously thought. What end do you think we end up with here by condoning this? Agitators taking over City Hall? Disbanding the police department? Please don't excuse burning down entire neighborhoods. Thanks.

komali2 6y ago
Why did the cops shoot tear gas at peaceful protestors yesterday, when they didn't two weeks ago when armed militia stormed the statehouse? The cops brought this on themselves. There's nobody to blame here but them.
- remarkEon 6y ago
  Because the "armed militia" that "stormed" the statehouse had no designs on doing any harm. It's really that simple. The "protestors" that got some tear gas shot at them went on to burn down some buildings that had nothing to do with this tragedy. You gonna blame them or nah?
  - komali2 6y ago
    Lol. The protests started peaceful. There were no calls to burn down a police station. The first window shattered was done so by an undercover cop. The first violent action taken was by the cops. So the people responded in turn. Nope, I don't blame them. They tried kneeling, so the president got a football player fired. They tried peacefully protesting, the cops showed up armed to the teeth and fired at people with plastic bullets and tear gas. There's a video of a parade of cop cars driving by protestors, the last of which indiscriminately sprayed pepper spray into the crowd. Lmao. The very audacity of your comment.