4 ms·

There are folks who are legitimately angry and are expressing that peacefully. And then there are people torching businesses, police stations and cars. Do you n

There are folks who are legitimately angry and are expressing that peacefully. And then there are people torching businesses, police stations and cars. Do you not think there is any sort of reasonable line being crossed here? I don't think it's fair to say it's inconsistent use when the domestic terrorists (yes, I agree with that portrayal) took over the statehouse. They were all in the statehouse, or in the immediate vicinity. How is a drone going to help in that situation? This is clearly a different situation with widespread rioting over a large geographic area. Edit: it's possible I have some of my facts wrong here - that's totally on me. But as much as I disagree with the GOP/COVID protesters - to their credit, they didn't start firebombing their local grocery store.

petee 6y ago
No, they are being murdered, how would you respond? We can't possibly understand the anger these people feel. If an innocent man is murdered by police, and they riot as a result, we need to start listening. As for the domestic terrorists, they were all out and about the city. Either way, a group of people with guns you watch, how could you know where they'd go next, or what they'd do. And the core fact is, if those white people were pepper sprayed by cops in the same fashion, they'd be rioting too. Edit: I should emphasize that I don't condone torching random businesses, what I am saying is that as a white person, thats not my opinion to have in this discussion since its anger boiled over. Some people just had enough, and I don't blame them. We don't get to decide their form of outrage.
- king_magic 6y ago
  I'm sorry, but I don't think the solution is to immediately reach for a Molotov cocktail and firebomb a Target. We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. Edit: the law defines the boundaries of what is acceptable outrage and what isn't. Edit2: there is a world of difference between reasonable civil disobedience and firebombing your local Target.
  - daeken 6y ago
    > Edit: the law defines the boundaries of what is acceptable outrage and what isn't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_(Thoreau) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_(Thoreau) "[i]t is not desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right. The only obligation which I have a right to assume is to do at any time what I think right.... Law never made men a whit more just; and, by means of their respect for it, even the well-disposed are daily made the agents of injustice." ETA: > Edit2: there is a world of difference between reasonable civil disobedience and firebombing your local Target. What is "reasonable civil disobedience"? If that Target is only in the neighborhood because it's an experimental LP store put in an incredibly impoverished area so that they can develop better techniques for putting people of color in prison, is it suddenly reasonable? https://twitter.com/IanColdwater/status/1265867904844693505 https://twitter.com/IanColdwater/status/1265867904844693505 Who are we to make that call, in either direction?
    - king_magic 6y ago
      > If that Target is only in the neighborhood because it's an experimental LP store put in an incredibly impoverished area so that they can develop better techniques for putting people of color in prison, is it suddenly reasonable? That's a pretty absurd, carefully crafted hypothetical situation that does not apply here. > .... Yes it does. That's literally why that Target was there. Did you read the link? Edit: alright, on that point I partially concede. I didn't realize that, and that is disturbing. However - and I just can't believe I still need to keep repeating this - I'm simply not going to go firebomb it because I don't like it. There are plenty of things I really don't like. Do I firebomb them because I don't like them? No, I choose not to firebomb them. Because that's not something responsible citizens do, at least in my worldview.
      - daeken 6y ago
        .... Yes it does. That's literally why that Target was there. Did you read the link? ETA: > I'm simply not going to go firebomb it because I don't like it. There are plenty of things I really don't like. Do I firebomb them because I don't like them? Nope, I choose not to firebomb them. Because that's not something responsible citizens do, at least in my worldview. I'm very, very glad that you and I have a voice in our communities/countries and don't need to resort to violence to get our message across. I'm not glad that the reason you and I have a voice and the people rioting in MN right now do not, is because we benefit from state violence and they are on the receiving end of it.

petee 6y ago

No, they are being murdered, how would you respond? We can't possibly understand the anger these people feel. If an innocent man is murdered by police, and they riot as a result, we need to start listening. As for the domestic terrorists, they were all out and about the city. Either way, a group of people with guns you watch, how could you know where they'd go next, or what they'd do. And the core fact is, if those white people were pepper sprayed by cops in the same fashion, they'd be rioting too. Edit: I should emphasize that I don't condone torching random businesses, what I am saying is that as a white person, thats not my opinion to have in this discussion since its anger boiled over. Some people just had enough, and I don't blame them. We don't get to decide their form of outrage.

king_magic 6y ago
I'm sorry, but I don't think the solution is to immediately reach for a Molotov cocktail and firebomb a Target. We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. Edit: the law defines the boundaries of what is acceptable outrage and what isn't. Edit2: there is a world of difference between reasonable civil disobedience and firebombing your local Target.
- daeken 6y ago
  > Edit: the law defines the boundaries of what is acceptable outrage and what isn't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_(Thoreau) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_(Thoreau) "[i]t is not desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right. The only obligation which I have a right to assume is to do at any time what I think right.... Law never made men a whit more just; and, by means of their respect for it, even the well-disposed are daily made the agents of injustice." ETA: > Edit2: there is a world of difference between reasonable civil disobedience and firebombing your local Target. What is "reasonable civil disobedience"? If that Target is only in the neighborhood because it's an experimental LP store put in an incredibly impoverished area so that they can develop better techniques for putting people of color in prison, is it suddenly reasonable? https://twitter.com/IanColdwater/status/1265867904844693505 https://twitter.com/IanColdwater/status/1265867904844693505 Who are we to make that call, in either direction?
  - king_magic 6y ago
    > If that Target is only in the neighborhood because it's an experimental LP store put in an incredibly impoverished area so that they can develop better techniques for putting people of color in prison, is it suddenly reasonable? That's a pretty absurd, carefully crafted hypothetical situation that does not apply here. > .... Yes it does. That's literally why that Target was there. Did you read the link? Edit: alright, on that point I partially concede. I didn't realize that, and that is disturbing. However - and I just can't believe I still need to keep repeating this - I'm simply not going to go firebomb it because I don't like it. There are plenty of things I really don't like. Do I firebomb them because I don't like them? No, I choose not to firebomb them. Because that's not something responsible citizens do, at least in my worldview.
    - daeken 6y ago
      .... Yes it does. That's literally why that Target was there. Did you read the link? ETA: > I'm simply not going to go firebomb it because I don't like it. There are plenty of things I really don't like. Do I firebomb them because I don't like them? Nope, I choose not to firebomb them. Because that's not something responsible citizens do, at least in my worldview. I'm very, very glad that you and I have a voice in our communities/countries and don't need to resort to violence to get our message across. I'm not glad that the reason you and I have a voice and the people rioting in MN right now do not, is because we benefit from state violence and they are on the receiving end of it.