5 ms·

Completely agree with trump here honestly. Looting private business is not a form of protest against the police or the state for that matter.

by _fq4v 6y ago

xigency 6y ago
You should investigate the racial history of the phrase “when the looting starts, the shooting starts” and also consider whether property crime deserves loss of life.
- tathougies 6y ago
  > property crime deserves loss of life. This is not an isolated incidence of property crime. This is utter destruction more akin to waging a total war against a particular district of Minneapolis. It's a form of terrorism. Property -- in the form of business and services -- is essential to life. There is no absolute distinction between the two, despite what some pretend. These people are breaking property in their own community and then expect investors or the very government they're protesting to step back in and rebuild.
  - xigency 6y ago
    > Property -- in the form of business and services -- is essential to life. While that can be true in a literal sense at times, I don't believe shop lifting electronics from Target would have that effect. Even the destruction of local businesses, while indeed terrorizing, is not lethal. Violent rioting would be something that might require a lethal response, but stealing, looting, robbing, plundering -- no. > These people are breaking property in their own community and then expect investors or the very government they're protesting to step back in and rebuild. So you believe that what is right, instead of investing and rebuilding, is that these people should be killed?
    - tathougies 6y ago
      > Even the destruction of local businesses, while indeed terrorizing, is not lethal. Tell that to the poor immigrant family whose business, and thus livelihood in this country, was destroyed. This is how we get roof koreans. Why don't these rioters go stand with guns outside the state capitol or city hall or police dept? Instead of disrespecting the memory of George Floyd. I hope his death isn't used to defend people's 'right' to steal TVs without getting caught. That would be really really really sad. You don't have the moral high ground here. Terrorizing and instilling fear in your local community is wrong, whether it comes from the state through the police or your fellow countrymen through riots. Just as an appropriate response to the officer who killed Mr Floyd would have been violence, so is violence towards the rioters. We can't honestly say that just because the police are thugs, thus we ought to also let others be thugs. Both can be wrong.
      - xigency 6y ago
        I don't think I will be able to convince you that no one else should be shot or killed so I won't be participating in this argument anymore. I can't have an ethical argument with someone who doesn't value human life. You have already stated that you believe that individuals should be shot for theft here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23354190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23354190 This is simply a difference of opinion.
        tathougies 6y ago
        > This is simply a difference of opinion. Right -- I think it's wrong to pick and choose who should be punished for terrorizing communities, and some only believe the police should. This is not a question of 'valuing human life'. It's about appropriate responses to violence. It's a basic principle of justice that those who commit violence no longer deserve to have their full set of rights respected in the eyes of the law or society. This is how we justify all sorts of things, from basic fines, to jail terms, to full-scale war. To be clear... I also think no one else should be shot and killed, which is why no one should be lotting or setting things on fire.
      - deanCommie 6y ago
yedava 6y ago
Really? People who steal should be shot?
- Veen 6y ago
  No, but nor should they be allowed to get away with it. They should be stopped and charged with a crime. But in the process of being stopped and arrested, their chances of being shot are not negligible, especially if they resist.
- tathougies 6y ago
  If you steal a TV, yeah honestly. There's a difference between stealing food or money to feed yourself or provide for your family and stealing luxury goods. I have lots of sympathy for the former, very little for the latter. The latter is a form of terrorism meant to intimidate businesses many of whose owners are likely members of your own community. I don't understand the modern desire to excuse theft. Theft is a form of terrorism; it is not okay, and is really high up there on the list of serious crimes that damage society.

Completely agree with trump here honestly. Looting private business is not a form of protest against the police or the state for that matter.

by _fq4v 6y ago

Completely agree with trump here honestly. Looting private business is not a form of protest against the police or the state for that matter.

xigency 6y ago

You should investigate the racial history of the phrase “when the looting starts, the shooting starts” and also consider whether property crime deserves loss of life.

tathougies 6y ago
> property crime deserves loss of life. This is not an isolated incidence of property crime. This is utter destruction more akin to waging a total war against a particular district of Minneapolis. It's a form of terrorism. Property -- in the form of business and services -- is essential to life. There is no absolute distinction between the two, despite what some pretend. These people are breaking property in their own community and then expect investors or the very government they're protesting to step back in and rebuild.
- xigency 6y ago
  > Property -- in the form of business and services -- is essential to life. While that can be true in a literal sense at times, I don't believe shop lifting electronics from Target would have that effect. Even the destruction of local businesses, while indeed terrorizing, is not lethal. Violent rioting would be something that might require a lethal response, but stealing, looting, robbing, plundering -- no. > These people are breaking property in their own community and then expect investors or the very government they're protesting to step back in and rebuild. So you believe that what is right, instead of investing and rebuilding, is that these people should be killed?
  - tathougies 6y ago
    > Even the destruction of local businesses, while indeed terrorizing, is not lethal. Tell that to the poor immigrant family whose business, and thus livelihood in this country, was destroyed. This is how we get roof koreans. Why don't these rioters go stand with guns outside the state capitol or city hall or police dept? Instead of disrespecting the memory of George Floyd. I hope his death isn't used to defend people's 'right' to steal TVs without getting caught. That would be really really really sad. You don't have the moral high ground here. Terrorizing and instilling fear in your local community is wrong, whether it comes from the state through the police or your fellow countrymen through riots. Just as an appropriate response to the officer who killed Mr Floyd would have been violence, so is violence towards the rioters. We can't honestly say that just because the police are thugs, thus we ought to also let others be thugs. Both can be wrong.
    - xigency 6y ago
      I don't think I will be able to convince you that no one else should be shot or killed so I won't be participating in this argument anymore. I can't have an ethical argument with someone who doesn't value human life. You have already stated that you believe that individuals should be shot for theft here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23354190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23354190 This is simply a difference of opinion.
      - tathougies 6y ago
        > This is simply a difference of opinion. Right -- I think it's wrong to pick and choose who should be punished for terrorizing communities, and some only believe the police should. This is not a question of 'valuing human life'. It's about appropriate responses to violence. It's a basic principle of justice that those who commit violence no longer deserve to have their full set of rights respected in the eyes of the law or society. This is how we justify all sorts of things, from basic fines, to jail terms, to full-scale war. To be clear... I also think no one else should be shot and killed, which is why no one should be lotting or setting things on fire.
    - deanCommie 6y ago

yedava 6y ago

Really? People who steal should be shot?

Veen 6y ago
No, but nor should they be allowed to get away with it. They should be stopped and charged with a crime. But in the process of being stopped and arrested, their chances of being shot are not negligible, especially if they resist.
tathougies 6y ago
If you steal a TV, yeah honestly. There's a difference between stealing food or money to feed yourself or provide for your family and stealing luxury goods. I have lots of sympathy for the former, very little for the latter. The latter is a form of terrorism meant to intimidate businesses many of whose owners are likely members of your own community. I don't understand the modern desire to excuse theft. Theft is a form of terrorism; it is not okay, and is really high up there on the list of serious crimes that damage society.