8 ms·

Wrong. Hydroxychloroquine is safer than acetaminophen. Chloroquine has much higher side effects, but they different drugs, in the same family.

kerkeslager 6y ago
"Common side effects may include vomiting, headache, changes in vision, and muscle weakness. Severe side effects may include allergic reactions, vision problems, and heart problems." Sure, these side effects may be uncommon, but they're a hell of a lot more common than they are if you don't take hydroxychloroquine. Incidentally, it's an open secret that a lot of the popular NSAIDs wouldn't be OTC if they were discovered today. Specifically because NSAIDs aren't just "safe", over the counter dosages are quite low--low enough that they're ineffective in many cases, which is why the same NSAIDs are prescribed at orders of magnitude higher doses. There's historical precedent for "safe" drugs being problematic during a pandemic: aspirin poisoning was a significant cause of death during the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic.
- ping_pong 6y ago
  Yes, so what you said didn't contradict anything I said. Hydroxycloroquine is safer than acetaminophen which is available openly at doses that can destroy the liver. Here is what the CDC says about hydroxychloroquine. To call it "unsafe" is ridiculous and spreading misinformation. Hydroxychloroquine is a relatively well tolerated medicine. The most common adverse reactions reported are stomach pain, nausea, vomiting, and headache. These side effects can often be lessened by taking hydroxychloroquine with food.Hydroxychloroquine may also cause itching in some people. All medicines may have some side effects. Minor side effects such as nausea, occasional vomiting, or diarrhea usually do not require stopping the antimalarial drug. If you cannot tolerate your antimalarial drug, see your health care provider; other antimalarial drugs are available
  - kerkeslager 6y ago
    > Yes, so what you said didn't contradict anything I said. Hydroxycloroquine is safer than acetaminophen which is available openly at doses that can destroy the liver. My point is, that even if it's safer than acetaminophen (which is not in evidence) that's doesn't mean it's safe. Which is a direct contradiction to your glib, "Wrong."
    - ping_pong 6y ago
      The CDC says "Hydroxychloroquine is a relatively well tolerated medicine." So, unless you know something more than the CDC, it sounds safe to me. That would absolutely make what you're saying "wrong", and you're spreading misinformation.
      - DanBC 6y ago
        CDC also said it shouldn't be used for covid unless it was in a hospital, as part of a clinical trial. They said this because it is dangerous. Currently CDC refers to NIH for advice about using Hydroxychloroquine: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/therapeutic-options.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/therapeutic-op... https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/whats-new/ https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/whats-new/ > Chloroquine/Hydroxychloroquine: > The Panel recommends against using high-dose chloroquine (600 mg twice daily for 10 days) for the treatment of COVID-19 (AI), because the high dose carries a higher risk of toxicities than the lower dose. > The FDA warning that cautioned against the use of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 outside the setting of a hospital or clinical trial was added to this section. Do they say this because it's a safe drug? No, they say it because it kills more people than it helps when used to treat covid-19.
        ping_pong 6y ago
        lol why do people keep associating this with COVID-19? Nowhere did I mention COVID-19. Hydroxychloroquine is primarily an anti-malaria drug, which the article is about.
        6y ago
jointpdf 6y ago
Are you going to cite any actual evidence for that bold claim? Here, like this: >We were unable to confirm a benefit of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, when used alone or with a macrolide, on in-hospital outcomes for COVID-19. Each of these drug regimens was associated with decreased in-hospital survival and an increased frequency of ventricular arrhythmias when used for treatment of COVID-19. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...
- ping_pong 6y ago
  Evidence for what claim? That hydroxychloroquine is safer than Tylenol? I don't know why you connected what I said with anything to do with COVID-19. I didn't say that it helped, in fact, I think it was bad science that lead to that belief. But the fact that hydroxychloroquine is safe is beyond argument. This is from the CDC: Hydroxychloroquine is a relatively well tolerated medicine. The most common adverse reactions reported are stomach pain, nausea, vomiting, and headache. These side effects can often be lessened by taking hydroxychloroquine with food. Hydroxychloroquine may also cause itching in some people. All medicines may have some side effects. Minor side effects such as nausea, occasional vomiting, or diarrhea usually do not require stopping the antimalarial drug. If you cannot tolerate your antimalarial drug, see your health care provider; other antimalarial drugs are available
  - jointpdf 6y ago
    I think replying with a sardonic “Wrong.” and then making an unsubstantiated claim made it pretty clear what the pretext of your comment was. But sure...I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Regardless, no it’s not “safe beyond argument”. Let’s try again. FDA: >”Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine: - should be used for COVID-19 only when patients can be appropriately monitored in the hospital as required by the EUA or are enrolled in a clinical trial with appropriate screening and monitoring. FDA is reviewing the safety of their use when used outside of the setting of hospitalized patients for whom use was authorized. have not been shown to be safe and effective for treating or preventing COVID-19. are being studied in clinical trials for COVID-19, and FDA authorized their temporary use during the COVID-19 pandemic under limited circumstances through the EUA, and not through regular FDA approval. - being used under the EUA when supplied from the Strategic National Stockpile, the national repository of critical medical supplies to be used during public health emergencies. can cause abnormal heart rhythms such as QT interval prolongation can cause dangerously rapid heart rate called ventricular tachycardia. - pose risks that may increase when these medicines are combined with other medicines known to prolong the QT interval, including the antibiotic azithromycin, which is also being used in some COVID-19 patients without FDA approval for this condition. - should be used with caution in Patients who also have other health issues such as heart and kidney disease, who are likely to be at increased risk of these heart problems when receiving these medicines.” >“Be aware that hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine can: - cause QT prolongation - increase the risk of QT prolongation in patients with renal insufficiency or failure - increase insulin levels and insulin action causing increased risk of severe hypoglycemia - cause hemolysis in patients with Glucose-6-Phosphate Dehydrogenase (G6PD) deficiency - interact with other medicines that cause QT prolongation even after discontinuing the medicines due to their long half-lives of approximately 30-60 days” https://www.fda.gov/safety/medical-product-safety-information/hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-drug-safety-communication-fda-cautions-against-use https://www.fda.gov/safety/medical-product-safety-informatio...

kerkeslager 6y ago

"Common side effects may include vomiting, headache, changes in vision, and muscle weakness. Severe side effects may include allergic reactions, vision problems, and heart problems." Sure, these side effects may be uncommon, but they're a hell of a lot more common than they are if you don't take hydroxychloroquine. Incidentally, it's an open secret that a lot of the popular NSAIDs wouldn't be OTC if they were discovered today. Specifically because NSAIDs aren't just "safe", over the counter dosages are quite low--low enough that they're ineffective in many cases, which is why the same NSAIDs are prescribed at orders of magnitude higher doses. There's historical precedent for "safe" drugs being problematic during a pandemic: aspirin poisoning was a significant cause of death during the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic.

ping_pong 6y ago
Yes, so what you said didn't contradict anything I said. Hydroxycloroquine is safer than acetaminophen which is available openly at doses that can destroy the liver. Here is what the CDC says about hydroxychloroquine. To call it "unsafe" is ridiculous and spreading misinformation. Hydroxychloroquine is a relatively well tolerated medicine. The most common adverse reactions reported are stomach pain, nausea, vomiting, and headache. These side effects can often be lessened by taking hydroxychloroquine with food.Hydroxychloroquine may also cause itching in some people. All medicines may have some side effects. Minor side effects such as nausea, occasional vomiting, or diarrhea usually do not require stopping the antimalarial drug. If you cannot tolerate your antimalarial drug, see your health care provider; other antimalarial drugs are available
- kerkeslager 6y ago
  > Yes, so what you said didn't contradict anything I said. Hydroxycloroquine is safer than acetaminophen which is available openly at doses that can destroy the liver. My point is, that even if it's safer than acetaminophen (which is not in evidence) that's doesn't mean it's safe. Which is a direct contradiction to your glib, "Wrong."
  - ping_pong 6y ago
    The CDC says "Hydroxychloroquine is a relatively well tolerated medicine." So, unless you know something more than the CDC, it sounds safe to me. That would absolutely make what you're saying "wrong", and you're spreading misinformation.
    - DanBC 6y ago
      CDC also said it shouldn't be used for covid unless it was in a hospital, as part of a clinical trial. They said this because it is dangerous. Currently CDC refers to NIH for advice about using Hydroxychloroquine: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/therapeutic-options.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/therapeutic-op... https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/whats-new/ https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/whats-new/ > Chloroquine/Hydroxychloroquine: > The Panel recommends against using high-dose chloroquine (600 mg twice daily for 10 days) for the treatment of COVID-19 (AI), because the high dose carries a higher risk of toxicities than the lower dose. > The FDA warning that cautioned against the use of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 outside the setting of a hospital or clinical trial was added to this section. Do they say this because it's a safe drug? No, they say it because it kills more people than it helps when used to treat covid-19.
      - ping_pong 6y ago
        lol why do people keep associating this with COVID-19? Nowhere did I mention COVID-19. Hydroxychloroquine is primarily an anti-malaria drug, which the article is about.
        6y ago

jointpdf 6y ago

Are you going to cite any actual evidence for that bold claim? Here, like this: >We were unable to confirm a benefit of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, when used alone or with a macrolide, on in-hospital outcomes for COVID-19. Each of these drug regimens was associated with decreased in-hospital survival and an increased frequency of ventricular arrhythmias when used for treatment of COVID-19. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

ping_pong 6y ago
Evidence for what claim? That hydroxychloroquine is safer than Tylenol? I don't know why you connected what I said with anything to do with COVID-19. I didn't say that it helped, in fact, I think it was bad science that lead to that belief. But the fact that hydroxychloroquine is safe is beyond argument. This is from the CDC: Hydroxychloroquine is a relatively well tolerated medicine. The most common adverse reactions reported are stomach pain, nausea, vomiting, and headache. These side effects can often be lessened by taking hydroxychloroquine with food. Hydroxychloroquine may also cause itching in some people. All medicines may have some side effects. Minor side effects such as nausea, occasional vomiting, or diarrhea usually do not require stopping the antimalarial drug. If you cannot tolerate your antimalarial drug, see your health care provider; other antimalarial drugs are available
- jointpdf 6y ago
  I think replying with a sardonic “Wrong.” and then making an unsubstantiated claim made it pretty clear what the pretext of your comment was. But sure...I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Regardless, no it’s not “safe beyond argument”. Let’s try again. FDA: >”Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine: - should be used for COVID-19 only when patients can be appropriately monitored in the hospital as required by the EUA or are enrolled in a clinical trial with appropriate screening and monitoring. FDA is reviewing the safety of their use when used outside of the setting of hospitalized patients for whom use was authorized. have not been shown to be safe and effective for treating or preventing COVID-19. are being studied in clinical trials for COVID-19, and FDA authorized their temporary use during the COVID-19 pandemic under limited circumstances through the EUA, and not through regular FDA approval. - being used under the EUA when supplied from the Strategic National Stockpile, the national repository of critical medical supplies to be used during public health emergencies. can cause abnormal heart rhythms such as QT interval prolongation can cause dangerously rapid heart rate called ventricular tachycardia. - pose risks that may increase when these medicines are combined with other medicines known to prolong the QT interval, including the antibiotic azithromycin, which is also being used in some COVID-19 patients without FDA approval for this condition. - should be used with caution in Patients who also have other health issues such as heart and kidney disease, who are likely to be at increased risk of these heart problems when receiving these medicines.” >“Be aware that hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine can: - cause QT prolongation - increase the risk of QT prolongation in patients with renal insufficiency or failure - increase insulin levels and insulin action causing increased risk of severe hypoglycemia - cause hemolysis in patients with Glucose-6-Phosphate Dehydrogenase (G6PD) deficiency - interact with other medicines that cause QT prolongation even after discontinuing the medicines due to their long half-lives of approximately 30-60 days” https://www.fda.gov/safety/medical-product-safety-information/hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-drug-safety-communication-fda-cautions-against-use https://www.fda.gov/safety/medical-product-safety-informatio...