4 ms·

I could be wrong but: Wouldn't "contractor at Google" still look great on a resume? Obviously not as great as having been a FTE, but I'd think it would still b

I could be wrong but: Wouldn't "contractor at Google" still look great on a resume? Obviously not as great as having been a FTE, but I'd think it would still be a positive differentiator. And as you said, there is the possibility of being flipped to FTE. Does this apply to SWEs too, and if so, is that a way to circumvent the dreaded and notorious leetcode style "Google Interview"? If so, combined with the first point above, seems like it would be worth playing the odds, considering going in the front door via the usual FTE SWE interview process is a huge gamble anyways.

dougmwne 6y ago
Absolutely! Contracts have many benefits to both parties, but stability is not one of them. A contract at Google sounds like resume gold to me. Many people commonly list the company they contracted for and leave off the agency and maybe say "Google May-Sept (contract)". I don't know Google's hiring practices but I do know that at many companies, going contract-to-hire let's you skip the full interview process. I have seen it personally many times from working in the industry. Contractors are usually hired after a single short interview.
ping_pong 6y ago
No, it looks like a contract gig. There's a big difference between the contractors hired at Google vs FTE.
- decafninja 6y ago
  The comparison isn't one between Google FTE and Google contractor. Obviously Google FTE is the superior job. It's between Google contractor and working (fulltime or otherwise) at a "lesser" company.
tripletao 6y ago
Experience as a contractor (strictly, employee of a contracted agency) at a big tech company is fine, not that exciting but positive. It would probably push my estimate of a candidate slightly above the middle of the distribution, away from either the good or bad extreme; but it's a lot less important than what you did. And yes, software developers do go from contract to FTE. The interview process may become somewhat pro forma in that case, since the options are to hire as FTE, fire as everything, or get somewhat awkward. So probably sometimes that lets candidates who couldn't have passed normal interviews slip through. In a certain sense, that's fine, since you've had much more time to assess your contractor, and probably already made a better determination than even the best 1-2 day interview process could. That does feel unfair, though; and since your contractor knows the group's work well and interview questions usually (should, at least) relate to that work, they should be coming in to your usual process with a strong advantage. So I personally try very hard not to start interviews for a quasi-internal candidate unless I'm confident they'll pass the usual process, and encourage interviewers to evaluate with their usual rigor. I've seen managers deliberately bring in interviewers outside the group too, both to improve objectivity and (hopefully) to make an introduction that the candidate will find valuable in their new FTE job.
- decafninja 6y ago
  Is your last bit fair though? I mean, if a contractor has already proven he/she does the real, actual, job well, and gets along with the team well, is it fair to make their future career depend on whether or not they can, say, convert a linked list to a balanced binary tree on the spot on a whiteboard? (arbitrary problem for sake of illustration). As opposed to taking on a fresh FTE who, as you put, only had 1-2 days of interviews to determine any sort of fit - technical or cultural.
  - tripletao 6y ago
    If the contractor does the job well but can't pass the usual interview, then either the contractor got unlucky or the interview process is broken. If the interview process is broken, then I should fix it for everyone, not make a one-time exception (e.g., realize that my front-end developer doesn't actually need to know how to balance binary trees on the whiteboard or whatever). That leaves the possibility that the contractor was unlucky, since even the best interview process will generate some false rejects. I believe the extra familiarity that a quasi-internal candidate has with the group's work (and thus the kind of stuff we're likely to ask) should more than offset that, though.
    - decafninja 6y ago
      Makes sense, fair enough!
- brmgb 6y ago
  > And yes, software developers do go from contract to FTE. The interview process may become somewhat pro forma in that case, This whole paragraph sounds very weird to me. It runs completely opposite to my experience. I have never worked at a place which made contractors go through technical interviews. That sounds like a huge waste of time when you already know how they perform. Interviewing is costly. In the field I used to work for, hiring contractors was seen as a major pain because you had to be careful about not spoiling your relationship with their current company and contracts tend to have clauses about "poaching". It was never done unless you really wanted the guy.

dougmwne 6y ago

Absolutely! Contracts have many benefits to both parties, but stability is not one of them. A contract at Google sounds like resume gold to me. Many people commonly list the company they contracted for and leave off the agency and maybe say "Google May-Sept (contract)". I don't know Google's hiring practices but I do know that at many companies, going contract-to-hire let's you skip the full interview process. I have seen it personally many times from working in the industry. Contractors are usually hired after a single short interview.

ping_pong 6y ago

No, it looks like a contract gig. There's a big difference between the contractors hired at Google vs FTE.

decafninja 6y ago
The comparison isn't one between Google FTE and Google contractor. Obviously Google FTE is the superior job. It's between Google contractor and working (fulltime or otherwise) at a "lesser" company.

tripletao 6y ago

Experience as a contractor (strictly, employee of a contracted agency) at a big tech company is fine, not that exciting but positive. It would probably push my estimate of a candidate slightly above the middle of the distribution, away from either the good or bad extreme; but it's a lot less important than what you did. And yes, software developers do go from contract to FTE. The interview process may become somewhat pro forma in that case, since the options are to hire as FTE, fire as everything, or get somewhat awkward. So probably sometimes that lets candidates who couldn't have passed normal interviews slip through. In a certain sense, that's fine, since you've had much more time to assess your contractor, and probably already made a better determination than even the best 1-2 day interview process could. That does feel unfair, though; and since your contractor knows the group's work well and interview questions usually (should, at least) relate to that work, they should be coming in to your usual process with a strong advantage. So I personally try very hard not to start interviews for a quasi-internal candidate unless I'm confident they'll pass the usual process, and encourage interviewers to evaluate with their usual rigor. I've seen managers deliberately bring in interviewers outside the group too, both to improve objectivity and (hopefully) to make an introduction that the candidate will find valuable in their new FTE job.

decafninja 6y ago
Is your last bit fair though? I mean, if a contractor has already proven he/she does the real, actual, job well, and gets along with the team well, is it fair to make their future career depend on whether or not they can, say, convert a linked list to a balanced binary tree on the spot on a whiteboard? (arbitrary problem for sake of illustration). As opposed to taking on a fresh FTE who, as you put, only had 1-2 days of interviews to determine any sort of fit - technical or cultural.
- tripletao 6y ago
  If the contractor does the job well but can't pass the usual interview, then either the contractor got unlucky or the interview process is broken. If the interview process is broken, then I should fix it for everyone, not make a one-time exception (e.g., realize that my front-end developer doesn't actually need to know how to balance binary trees on the whiteboard or whatever). That leaves the possibility that the contractor was unlucky, since even the best interview process will generate some false rejects. I believe the extra familiarity that a quasi-internal candidate has with the group's work (and thus the kind of stuff we're likely to ask) should more than offset that, though.
  - decafninja 6y ago
    Makes sense, fair enough!
brmgb 6y ago
> And yes, software developers do go from contract to FTE. The interview process may become somewhat pro forma in that case, This whole paragraph sounds very weird to me. It runs completely opposite to my experience. I have never worked at a place which made contractors go through technical interviews. That sounds like a huge waste of time when you already know how they perform. Interviewing is costly. In the field I used to work for, hiring contractors was seen as a major pain because you had to be careful about not spoiling your relationship with their current company and contracts tend to have clauses about "poaching". It was never done unless you really wanted the guy.