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Utah Data Center

Der_Einzige 6y ago
I wonder about how much of my information is contained here. Maybe I can ask them for my info if I lose it and use them as a free backup service? /Sarcasm
Trasmatta 6y ago
I live in Utah. A common joke working at tech companies is that we don't need backups, because we can just hop over to the NSA Data Center and have them throw it all onto a hard drive for us.
AndrewBissell 6y ago
Never ceases to amaze me how this was normalized and accepted. The general public instantly flipped from "that's just a conspiracy theory," to "yeah, they collect everything, but I've got nothing to hide!" and "oh well, what can you do about it?"
- parliament32 6y ago
  Eventually you realize the general public opinion is almost always the path of least resistance. Whatever explanation/justification takes the least amount of effort is what they'll go with.
- minikites 6y ago
  "If it was wrong, someone would be doing something about it."
  - AndrewBissell 6y ago
    Oh yes, I vividly remember debating the program on Facebook with some Obama fans who insisted, "he's a good person, so he must have seen something to convince him this is necessary!"
- jeffbee 6y ago
  Well they obviously don't "collect everything" because this one tiny datacenter wont hold "everything". This datacenter is 60MW in capacity, or something like 1-5% as large as Google's aggregate capacity, where Google itself is also a small fraction of global datacenter capacity. We can also safely assume that, like all other government datacenters, the PUE at this facility is terrible, and I would feel safe in further assuming that storage efficiency at this agency is not state of the art. Considering all these factors, I think this facility is between 1000 and 1000000 times too small to contain "everything".
  - AndrewBissell 6y ago
    Obviously they're probably not recording all the packets from when I watch TWIN PEAKS on Amazon Prime, though I wouldn't be surprised if they track viewing habits somehow. "Everything" is meant to mean all phone calls, texts, emails, contact lists, and probably posts to certain social media sites and forums. Anything potentially useful in building a behavioral profile of a target based on past behavior.
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      You are radically underestimating the size of email as a global corpus, to say nothing of phone calls.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    Not even with nearline, or offline storage with M-DISCs organized in cassette/magazine-systems, handled by robots? Which are located right around the corner, btw. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC Yes, yes, i know, conspiracy theory, also bankrupt! But funny coincidence, isn't it? :-)
ngngngng 6y ago
Another Utahn here. Fascinating that they codenamed it "bumblehive". The Utah territory was named "Deseret" when the Mormon settlers arrived. Deseret is believed to mean Honeybee in an ancient language and was chosen to represent industriousness.
- briefcomment 6y ago
  The beehive is also Utah's state emblem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Utah_state_symbols https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Utah_state_symbols
- hossbeast 6y ago
  Believed by whom?
  - finnh 6y ago
    Members of the LDS church
    - mholt 6y ago
      I can see why they think that, but we really don't know the full etymology: https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/where-does-the-word-deseret-come-from https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/where-does-the... > When the Brother of Jared and his companions traveled, they “did also carry with them deseret, which, by interpretation, is a honey bee” (Ether 2:3). This is the only time in the Book of Mormon where the text gives a definition for a Jaredite word. But it has proven difficult to know where in the ancient Near East the word came from. “Until possible language affinities for Jaredite names can be determined, all suggestions for etymologies of Jaredite names must remain more speculative than substantive.” In addition, the word “deseret” does not translate as “bee” in any known ancient Mesopotamian language.
  - ohples 6y ago
    This message brought to you by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
supernova87a 6y ago
This odd thread sparks my memory on another story about data centers that I came across -- how railroad history determines where data centers tend to be located in the US: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/how-railroad-history-shaped-internet-history/417414/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/how-r... I wonder if this US Govt data center ties into / depends on the Union Pacific trunk(?) fiber lines?
- conbandit 6y ago
  For a broader view on this topic, I recommend "A Prehistory of the Cloud"
  - supernova87a 6y ago
    Thanks for that suggestion! Can be downloaded free from here, which is great: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/book/7288688 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/book/7288688

I wonder about how much of my information is contained here. Maybe I can ask them for my info if I lose it and use them as a free backup service? /Sarcasm

Trasmatta 6y ago

I live in Utah. A common joke working at tech companies is that we don't need backups, because we can just hop over to the NSA Data Center and have them throw it all onto a hard drive for us.

AndrewBissell 6y ago

Never ceases to amaze me how this was normalized and accepted. The general public instantly flipped from "that's just a conspiracy theory," to "yeah, they collect everything, but I've got nothing to hide!" and "oh well, what can you do about it?"

parliament32 6y ago
Eventually you realize the general public opinion is almost always the path of least resistance. Whatever explanation/justification takes the least amount of effort is what they'll go with.
minikites 6y ago
"If it was wrong, someone would be doing something about it."
- AndrewBissell 6y ago
  Oh yes, I vividly remember debating the program on Facebook with some Obama fans who insisted, "he's a good person, so he must have seen something to convince him this is necessary!"
jeffbee 6y ago
Well they obviously don't "collect everything" because this one tiny datacenter wont hold "everything". This datacenter is 60MW in capacity, or something like 1-5% as large as Google's aggregate capacity, where Google itself is also a small fraction of global datacenter capacity. We can also safely assume that, like all other government datacenters, the PUE at this facility is terrible, and I would feel safe in further assuming that storage efficiency at this agency is not state of the art. Considering all these factors, I think this facility is between 1000 and 1000000 times too small to contain "everything".
- AndrewBissell 6y ago
  Obviously they're probably not recording all the packets from when I watch TWIN PEAKS on Amazon Prime, though I wouldn't be surprised if they track viewing habits somehow. "Everything" is meant to mean all phone calls, texts, emails, contact lists, and probably posts to certain social media sites and forums. Anything potentially useful in building a behavioral profile of a target based on past behavior.
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    You are radically underestimating the size of email as a global corpus, to say nothing of phone calls.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  Not even with nearline, or offline storage with M-DISCs organized in cassette/magazine-systems, handled by robots? Which are located right around the corner, btw. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC Yes, yes, i know, conspiracy theory, also bankrupt! But funny coincidence, isn't it? :-)

ngngngng 6y ago

Another Utahn here. Fascinating that they codenamed it "bumblehive". The Utah territory was named "Deseret" when the Mormon settlers arrived. Deseret is believed to mean Honeybee in an ancient language and was chosen to represent industriousness.

briefcomment 6y ago
The beehive is also Utah's state emblem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Utah_state_symbols https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Utah_state_symbols
hossbeast 6y ago
Believed by whom?
- finnh 6y ago
  Members of the LDS church
  - mholt 6y ago
    I can see why they think that, but we really don't know the full etymology: https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/where-does-the-word-deseret-come-from https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/where-does-the... > When the Brother of Jared and his companions traveled, they “did also carry with them deseret, which, by interpretation, is a honey bee” (Ether 2:3). This is the only time in the Book of Mormon where the text gives a definition for a Jaredite word. But it has proven difficult to know where in the ancient Near East the word came from. “Until possible language affinities for Jaredite names can be determined, all suggestions for etymologies of Jaredite names must remain more speculative than substantive.” In addition, the word “deseret” does not translate as “bee” in any known ancient Mesopotamian language.
- ohples 6y ago
  This message brought to you by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

supernova87a 6y ago

This odd thread sparks my memory on another story about data centers that I came across -- how railroad history determines where data centers tend to be located in the US: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/how-railroad-history-shaped-internet-history/417414/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/how-r... I wonder if this US Govt data center ties into / depends on the Union Pacific trunk(?) fiber lines?

conbandit 6y ago
For a broader view on this topic, I recommend "A Prehistory of the Cloud"
- supernova87a 6y ago
  Thanks for that suggestion! Can be downloaded free from here, which is great: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/book/7288688 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/book/7288688