5 ms·

I don't know why you're getting down voted. Trump's words are a quote of someone who believed that "... it’s okay for them to shoot protestors so long as there

I don't know why you're getting down voted. Trump's words are a quote of someone who believed that "... it’s okay for them to shoot protestors so long as there is looting." Trump is very much saying he believes looter should be shot.

Balgair 6y ago
To be clear here: Looting is not a capital offense. It's stuff. No TV/car/stereo is worth killing a person over. You have insurance for these things (hopefully). Though laws vary widely in the US, in CA the punishment is about a year in county jail, give or take: https://www.shouselaw.com/california-looting-laws.html https://www.shouselaw.com/california-looting-laws.html
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- andrew_ 6y ago
  To be clear here: it's not just "stuff." In innumerable ways, the looting and rioting is resulting in loss of material items that cannot be replaced. Case in point: https://twitter.com/wakiyan7/status/1266350546249629699 https://twitter.com/wakiyan7/status/1266350546249629699
  - wetmore 6y ago
    Things that can't be replaced huh? Like human lives, say those of Floyd or the protesters being shot at by police?
    - andrew_ 6y ago
      So you chose to conflate the loss of irreplaceable Native American artifacts and historical records with the loss of a life, on a thread discussing material items? I get that this is emotional, but that was not warranted. The rioters have destroyed the historical records of a Native American tribe and I'd like to think that they've suffered enough. The point was to show that it's not only cheap Target things being lost here.
  - sangnoir 6y ago
    To be clearer still: Minnesota does not have stand your ground / castle doctrine laws - you can't protect "material items" with deadly force, no matter how valuable or irreplaceable. Instead, there is are Duty to retreat laws.
    - avgDev 6y ago
      I have recently looked into conceal carry, and many states DO NOT allow you to shoot someone who tells you they want your wallet. If they do not seem like a threat to your life, you are not allowed to use lethal force. Obviously, things can later be argued in court.
  - margalabargala 6y ago
    That's horrible. That's still not worth shooting people in the streets over.
    - andrew_ 6y ago
      I was not arguing in favor of shooting anyone. I was simply pointing out that dismissing the destruction in generality as "stuff" is in error and minimizing the effect. Don't lose objectivity in the face of tragedy.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    There are reports that some of the fires are set by provocateurs from the police. But this is impossible to prove either way.
  - TeaDrunk 6y ago
    1. This is horrible. 2. This could've been avoided if the original policeman was brought to justice.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - eanzenberg 6y ago
      They are. Or do you want them dragged through the streets and hanged immediately?
    - Simulacra 6y ago
      Sorry I needed to include some references here: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/arts/design/van-gogh-stolen.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/arts/design/van-gogh-stol... and https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/us/politics/klobuchar-minneapolis-george-floyd.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/us/politics/klobuchar-min... "During her own presidential campaign, Ms. Klobuchar faced continued protests, as well as some calls to drop out of the race from local black leaders in Minneapolis, after news reports found numerous faults in the prosecution of a black teenager named Myon Burrell while Ms. Klobuchar was the prosecutor."
- user5994461 6y ago
  One's opinion may vary after the third time their home is broken into to steal the TV/stereo/laptops.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Consultant32452 6y ago
    I'm going to give Trump a C grade on communication on this one. A better Tweet would have been something like, "Minneapolis is why we need the second amendment and stand your ground laws." Followed by calls to Congress on nationwide concealed carry reciprocity, stand your ground, etc.
Simulacra 6y ago
I have taken down this same argument you made elsewhere on this topic and I ask that in addition to your not arguing about something that didn’t happen and how you hypothesize people you cannot name would react, that you make the argument just once and not paper all over a topic with exact copies of it.

Balgair 6y ago

To be clear here: Looting is not a capital offense. It's stuff. No TV/car/stereo is worth killing a person over. You have insurance for these things (hopefully). Though laws vary widely in the US, in CA the punishment is about a year in county jail, give or take: https://www.shouselaw.com/california-looting-laws.html https://www.shouselaw.com/california-looting-laws.html

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
andrew_ 6y ago
To be clear here: it's not just "stuff." In innumerable ways, the looting and rioting is resulting in loss of material items that cannot be replaced. Case in point: https://twitter.com/wakiyan7/status/1266350546249629699 https://twitter.com/wakiyan7/status/1266350546249629699
- wetmore 6y ago
  Things that can't be replaced huh? Like human lives, say those of Floyd or the protesters being shot at by police?
  - andrew_ 6y ago
    So you chose to conflate the loss of irreplaceable Native American artifacts and historical records with the loss of a life, on a thread discussing material items? I get that this is emotional, but that was not warranted. The rioters have destroyed the historical records of a Native American tribe and I'd like to think that they've suffered enough. The point was to show that it's not only cheap Target things being lost here.
- sangnoir 6y ago
  To be clearer still: Minnesota does not have stand your ground / castle doctrine laws - you can't protect "material items" with deadly force, no matter how valuable or irreplaceable. Instead, there is are Duty to retreat laws.
  - avgDev 6y ago
    I have recently looked into conceal carry, and many states DO NOT allow you to shoot someone who tells you they want your wallet. If they do not seem like a threat to your life, you are not allowed to use lethal force. Obviously, things can later be argued in court.
- margalabargala 6y ago
  That's horrible. That's still not worth shooting people in the streets over.
  - andrew_ 6y ago
    I was not arguing in favor of shooting anyone. I was simply pointing out that dismissing the destruction in generality as "stuff" is in error and minimizing the effect. Don't lose objectivity in the face of tragedy.
- pjc50 6y ago
  There are reports that some of the fires are set by provocateurs from the police. But this is impossible to prove either way.
- TeaDrunk 6y ago
  1. This is horrible. 2. This could've been avoided if the original policeman was brought to justice.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - eanzenberg 6y ago
    They are. Or do you want them dragged through the streets and hanged immediately?
  - Simulacra 6y ago
    Sorry I needed to include some references here: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/arts/design/van-gogh-stolen.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/arts/design/van-gogh-stol... and https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/us/politics/klobuchar-minneapolis-george-floyd.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/us/politics/klobuchar-min... "During her own presidential campaign, Ms. Klobuchar faced continued protests, as well as some calls to drop out of the race from local black leaders in Minneapolis, after news reports found numerous faults in the prosecution of a black teenager named Myon Burrell while Ms. Klobuchar was the prosecutor."
user5994461 6y ago
One's opinion may vary after the third time their home is broken into to steal the TV/stereo/laptops.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Consultant32452 6y ago
  I'm going to give Trump a C grade on communication on this one. A better Tweet would have been something like, "Minneapolis is why we need the second amendment and stand your ground laws." Followed by calls to Congress on nationwide concealed carry reciprocity, stand your ground, etc.

Simulacra 6y ago

I have taken down this same argument you made elsewhere on this topic and I ask that in addition to your not arguing about something that didn’t happen and how you hypothesize people you cannot name would react, that you make the argument just once and not paper all over a topic with exact copies of it.