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LSD is very, very interesting if you have a somewhat disciplined mind. When the border of reality becomes diffuse, you're for some reason able to reason about y

LSD is very, very interesting if you have a somewhat disciplined mind. When the border of reality becomes diffuse, you're for some reason able to reason about your own consciousness. You see how arbitrary your perception of reality really is. You start thinking about where thoughts come from, and the difference between a state (mind) and a process (the underlying biology from which the consciousness emerges). Fun stuff. It's extra fun when you realize you're seeing fractals and thinking recursion. Be safe. Your experiences may differ.

helloimbob 6y ago
Seeing fractals is great! Getting stuck in a thought loop less so...
- pengstrom 6y ago
  Yes that's very unpleasant. I guess that's why they recommend starting slow. But it also gives some insight, as I (feel) I'm more able to control my thoughts the next time it happens. But yes, do not take psychedelics lightly.
  - mettamage 6y ago
    > But yes, do not take psychedelics lightly. Some thought loops can actually be life threatening (e.g. suicidal ones). This can also happen when there are no apparent signs of it during your normal day to day life. YMMV, but I was happy to have a sober trip sitter.
- blunte 6y ago
  Many of us don't need mushrooms to be stuck in thought loops :/. I suspect this is a common human situation.
  - mjayhn 6y ago
    I talk about this in my reply in the thread but psychs have actually helped me a lot with controlling my intrusive thoughts and loops, essentially CBT practice. It's like a hurricane of them each time you trip and to stay positive you really have to practice turning self-defeating negativity into something either positive or that you realize is just BS. Not sure if you've tripped but the thought loops you get stuck in there are insane, it's complete tunnel vision and you really need your inner monologue to stop and interpret what's going on. I often write out the negative thoughts/beliefs I start feeling then start working through whether they're true, false, completely made up.. They're almost always the latter thankfully.
- peterlk 6y ago
  "Thought loops" often produce the music that I'm most proud of making. They let me focus in on making it sound exactly like it does in my head without getting tired of hearing the same loop on repeat. I think thought loops are a rare and wonderful commodity.
metta2uall 6y ago
Thanks, that's interesting. Buddhist meditation aims to give similar insights but apparently goes even deeper & is more sustainable long-term. Lots of at least anecdotal evidence that this is really useful. The "downside" is the learning curve & initial difficulty..
- mjayhn 6y ago
  Don't let perfection be the enemy of good enough with meditation. Even if I have a "bad" meditation it's a habit and muscle I'm practicing, whether it's 5 mins or 25mins. You don't need the perfect seat, guidance, quiet room, experience or anything. As someone with, I believe, a very reactive anxiety response to things it helps more than anything I've tried in the past. I do walking meditation and meditation throughout the day a lot more often now just accepting that noises or imperfections around me that might interrupt it or make it less "perfect" are challenges that help me improve my capabilities. With that said, lsd is a different world completely. I've had some major ups and downs with psychadelics, that's something you have to practice. The first time I tripped I had a horrible experience. I completely trusted the thoughts in my head at that point (I was a kid, had no idea about CBT/etc). Then I waited 15 years and did it again as a grown adult and it was eye opening. I didn't do it once, I had a bout a month of experiences on vacation and got to be really comfortable with Lucy through her ups and downs. I've found that it's like a steroid injection into my CBT practice that I neglect way too much. You have to learn to really interpret your thoughts and decide whether that's a thread you want your mind to go down, whether there is any veracity to it or if it's something completely made up; because sometimes when you go down that route you might get suck in a loop that you have to find you way out of. If you don't find you way out of it and you ruminate on something super negative that's often how people have their bad experiences. Tripping is strapping your brain to a rocket ship and not really knowing how much fuel is in the tank. Depending on what and how much you took you might have some control over its navigation through the depths of your feelings (good and bad) or you might not (my experience with shrooms vs lsd) and just have to strap in and tell yourself that everything you might perceive as scary or confusing is temporary and a result of the chemicals and that you'll be fine once the rocket ship lands and the trips over regardless of where your thoughts went. I think CBT, meditation and pyschs are hugely complimentary to one another. With that said, I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that everyone should try psychs whereas yes to the others. If everyone had a shaman or mediator to help them on their first few attempts I think, sure. But you'll still have people that have a horrible trip because they take those wrong threads and don't find a positive way out. I have some friends that I'd love to experience psychs but I just can't get over worrying that they'll not handle it well. People stuck in their heads that I think need practice with more abstract thinking (eg; not believing everything their mind comes up with is true). Bad trips can affect your pysche for months or years. They can seed the strangest, most negative thoughts of yourself that you've never even considered and you might begin to believe they're true. edit: With this all said, 80%+ of my time tripping is me sitting outside playing guitar or at my computer listening to music and watching youtube (artists or musicians mostly) and just being in the best mood imaginable for a few hours. Sometimes I just grab my Ipad and draw nonstop, I never do that sober. It just feels so good to draw and make cool things. When I did it again after that long break I went "I can't believe this is illegal. I'm just sitting here playing Witcher 3 and enjoying the visuals."
lqet 6y ago
> You see how arbitrary your perception of reality really is. This is the thing that worries me, as I had solipsistic tendencies ever since as a child I try to figure out a way to check if everybody perceives color in the same way. It can be problematic when you are dealing with a group of people who are really enthusiastic about something and you just cannot get the feeling out of the back of your head that what they are enthusiastic about is just some random filter layed over an reality which might not even intrinsically contain the notion of time and space. Are such feelings more intense after an LSD trip?
- Intermernet 6y ago
  Firstly, I think everyone (or at least, many people) has the exact same solipsistic colour question pop up at some point in childhood. It's a logical question to ask, and I'm not going to try to persuade you into any conclusion! Secondly, if you're worried about taking psychedelics, don't take them. If you're intrigued, do more research, speak to more people, and see if your worries are diminished by the answers you find. If you feel more comfortable with the prospect of psychedelics after that, then maybe give one a try. It's very important to be comfortable with the idea of taking psychedelics if you're going to get anything out of the experience. It's highly unlikely (but not unprecedented) that you will do permanent harm, but you may have a temporarily unpleasant, or even just neutral, or boring experience. Regarding your question, these feelings are more intense during an LSD trip, but it's the analysis and digestion of these feelings which, in part, can lead to a change in outlook after an LSD trip. I advise, if you choose to try psychedelics, to be in a positive state of mind, be with one or more people who you know, love and trust, and to have at least one person present who doesn't take anything. This person is your spotter. They are there to ensure that you don't come to physical harm, and they can also help to remind you that the psychedelic state is temporary, and you will be fine, in the off chance you aren't having a good time. This person would ideally be somewhat experienced in the psychedelic experience,and also be a known, trusted friend. I know this sounds complicated, and many may disagree with me, but it's my advice for first time psychedelic experimenters.
- moreaccountspls 6y ago
  > way to check if everybody perceives color in the same way Forget color, how do you know that anyone even exists? ;) Psychs can certainly increase feelings of solipsism, but they can also make you more accepting of a relative view reality if you allow yourself to process it.

helloimbob 6y ago

Seeing fractals is great! Getting stuck in a thought loop less so...

pengstrom 6y ago
Yes that's very unpleasant. I guess that's why they recommend starting slow. But it also gives some insight, as I (feel) I'm more able to control my thoughts the next time it happens. But yes, do not take psychedelics lightly.
- mettamage 6y ago
  > But yes, do not take psychedelics lightly. Some thought loops can actually be life threatening (e.g. suicidal ones). This can also happen when there are no apparent signs of it during your normal day to day life. YMMV, but I was happy to have a sober trip sitter.
blunte 6y ago
Many of us don't need mushrooms to be stuck in thought loops :/. I suspect this is a common human situation.
- mjayhn 6y ago
  I talk about this in my reply in the thread but psychs have actually helped me a lot with controlling my intrusive thoughts and loops, essentially CBT practice. It's like a hurricane of them each time you trip and to stay positive you really have to practice turning self-defeating negativity into something either positive or that you realize is just BS. Not sure if you've tripped but the thought loops you get stuck in there are insane, it's complete tunnel vision and you really need your inner monologue to stop and interpret what's going on. I often write out the negative thoughts/beliefs I start feeling then start working through whether they're true, false, completely made up.. They're almost always the latter thankfully.
peterlk 6y ago
"Thought loops" often produce the music that I'm most proud of making. They let me focus in on making it sound exactly like it does in my head without getting tired of hearing the same loop on repeat. I think thought loops are a rare and wonderful commodity.

metta2uall 6y ago

Thanks, that's interesting. Buddhist meditation aims to give similar insights but apparently goes even deeper & is more sustainable long-term. Lots of at least anecdotal evidence that this is really useful. The "downside" is the learning curve & initial difficulty..

mjayhn 6y ago
Don't let perfection be the enemy of good enough with meditation. Even if I have a "bad" meditation it's a habit and muscle I'm practicing, whether it's 5 mins or 25mins. You don't need the perfect seat, guidance, quiet room, experience or anything. As someone with, I believe, a very reactive anxiety response to things it helps more than anything I've tried in the past. I do walking meditation and meditation throughout the day a lot more often now just accepting that noises or imperfections around me that might interrupt it or make it less "perfect" are challenges that help me improve my capabilities. With that said, lsd is a different world completely. I've had some major ups and downs with psychadelics, that's something you have to practice. The first time I tripped I had a horrible experience. I completely trusted the thoughts in my head at that point (I was a kid, had no idea about CBT/etc). Then I waited 15 years and did it again as a grown adult and it was eye opening. I didn't do it once, I had a bout a month of experiences on vacation and got to be really comfortable with Lucy through her ups and downs. I've found that it's like a steroid injection into my CBT practice that I neglect way too much. You have to learn to really interpret your thoughts and decide whether that's a thread you want your mind to go down, whether there is any veracity to it or if it's something completely made up; because sometimes when you go down that route you might get suck in a loop that you have to find you way out of. If you don't find you way out of it and you ruminate on something super negative that's often how people have their bad experiences. Tripping is strapping your brain to a rocket ship and not really knowing how much fuel is in the tank. Depending on what and how much you took you might have some control over its navigation through the depths of your feelings (good and bad) or you might not (my experience with shrooms vs lsd) and just have to strap in and tell yourself that everything you might perceive as scary or confusing is temporary and a result of the chemicals and that you'll be fine once the rocket ship lands and the trips over regardless of where your thoughts went. I think CBT, meditation and pyschs are hugely complimentary to one another. With that said, I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that everyone should try psychs whereas yes to the others. If everyone had a shaman or mediator to help them on their first few attempts I think, sure. But you'll still have people that have a horrible trip because they take those wrong threads and don't find a positive way out. I have some friends that I'd love to experience psychs but I just can't get over worrying that they'll not handle it well. People stuck in their heads that I think need practice with more abstract thinking (eg; not believing everything their mind comes up with is true). Bad trips can affect your pysche for months or years. They can seed the strangest, most negative thoughts of yourself that you've never even considered and you might begin to believe they're true. edit: With this all said, 80%+ of my time tripping is me sitting outside playing guitar or at my computer listening to music and watching youtube (artists or musicians mostly) and just being in the best mood imaginable for a few hours. Sometimes I just grab my Ipad and draw nonstop, I never do that sober. It just feels so good to draw and make cool things. When I did it again after that long break I went "I can't believe this is illegal. I'm just sitting here playing Witcher 3 and enjoying the visuals."

lqet 6y ago

> You see how arbitrary your perception of reality really is. This is the thing that worries me, as I had solipsistic tendencies ever since as a child I try to figure out a way to check if everybody perceives color in the same way. It can be problematic when you are dealing with a group of people who are really enthusiastic about something and you just cannot get the feeling out of the back of your head that what they are enthusiastic about is just some random filter layed over an reality which might not even intrinsically contain the notion of time and space. Are such feelings more intense after an LSD trip?

Intermernet 6y ago
Firstly, I think everyone (or at least, many people) has the exact same solipsistic colour question pop up at some point in childhood. It's a logical question to ask, and I'm not going to try to persuade you into any conclusion! Secondly, if you're worried about taking psychedelics, don't take them. If you're intrigued, do more research, speak to more people, and see if your worries are diminished by the answers you find. If you feel more comfortable with the prospect of psychedelics after that, then maybe give one a try. It's very important to be comfortable with the idea of taking psychedelics if you're going to get anything out of the experience. It's highly unlikely (but not unprecedented) that you will do permanent harm, but you may have a temporarily unpleasant, or even just neutral, or boring experience. Regarding your question, these feelings are more intense during an LSD trip, but it's the analysis and digestion of these feelings which, in part, can lead to a change in outlook after an LSD trip. I advise, if you choose to try psychedelics, to be in a positive state of mind, be with one or more people who you know, love and trust, and to have at least one person present who doesn't take anything. This person is your spotter. They are there to ensure that you don't come to physical harm, and they can also help to remind you that the psychedelic state is temporary, and you will be fine, in the off chance you aren't having a good time. This person would ideally be somewhat experienced in the psychedelic experience,and also be a known, trusted friend. I know this sounds complicated, and many may disagree with me, but it's my advice for first time psychedelic experimenters.
moreaccountspls 6y ago
> way to check if everybody perceives color in the same way Forget color, how do you know that anyone even exists? ;) Psychs can certainly increase feelings of solipsism, but they can also make you more accepting of a relative view reality if you allow yourself to process it.