3 ms·

Can't imagine this is going to last. CSS authorizes digital output of video content when one in a limited set of copy protection systems is in place on the dig

Can't imagine this is going to last. CSS authorizes digital output of video content when one in a limited set of copy protection systems is in place on the digital output. IP streaming video is obviously a digital output and though Zediva may be using copy protection within Flash, I highly doubt that specific type of copy protection is authorized by the CSS license. Additionally, CSS may only authorize specific digital outputs, in which case IP streaming through Flash is unlikely to be one of them. Therefore, Zediva is very likely circumventing CSS, which is a DMCA violation.

_delirium 16y ago
Aren't you allowed to circumvent for interoperability? If the "these are just really long video cables" argument would hold up on its own, and the CSS-circumvention issue were the only thing standing in the way, then it seems like they could argue that they were circumventing CSS for the purpose of interoperating with their fancy software video cable. And if that argument doesn't hold up, then their rental/streaming business is probably not legal anyway for licensing reasons, even without the circumventing-CSS issue. Disclaimer: my knowledge of this area of law is somewhat spotty, so I could be wrong.
- pyre 16y ago
  Not legal for licensing reasons how? If I buy a video from the store, I'm legally able to rent it out to others without the permission of the studios. Most large chains cut profit-sharing deals with the studios to get better-than-wholesale prices on DVDs. I won't comment on Redbox b/c it cuts too close to my day-job and don't want my comments coming back to bite me.
  - URSpider94 16y ago
    There have been articles about Redbox that stated that it will buy retail copies of DVD's for rental, if it has to, to achieve parity with other rental companies. You're right, the studios don't like it, but there is nothing that they can do about it.
joeag 16y ago
First sale doctrine. You buy it you can rent, sell or destroy. Can't edit or change. Argument would be if you are "changing" by encoding, I would assume that's why they are stressing the DVD player solution. If you look at some of the case law, the entertainment companies used to make arguments that playing a dvd in your computer violated first sale because you were sending a digital signal to a monitor. They lost those cases.
- OpieCunningham 16y ago
  First sale doctrine does not allow circumvention of DRM. I don't have the CSS license in front of me, but the AACS and CPPM licenses (created by many of the same lawyers) specify exactly which types of digital outputs are allowed and what types of security are required if those digital outputs are used. IP streaming is a digital output. Assuming the CSS license is similar, if IP streaming is not listed in the CSS license, and if the security Zediva uses (assuming they use any) isn't listed, then Zediva is circumventing CSS.
  - joeag 16y ago
    Actually you are stating a hypothesis as a fact. Exactly what DRM is under First Sale Doctrine is to my (somewhat rusty) knowledge, still unclear. Whatever licenses you do or don't have in front of you don't matter. That's the whole point of First Sale - you are not subject to any contract or license, it defines what you can do WITHOUT PERMISSION when you purchase a particular item.
    - OpieCunningham 16y ago
      So case law is unclear enough that I can create a CSS circumvention tool and sell it to you? No. How about if I create a CSS circumvention tool and then rent you access to that tool on a per-movie basis? That's Zediva.

_delirium 16y ago

Aren't you allowed to circumvent for interoperability? If the "these are just really long video cables" argument would hold up on its own, and the CSS-circumvention issue were the only thing standing in the way, then it seems like they could argue that they were circumventing CSS for the purpose of interoperating with their fancy software video cable. And if that argument doesn't hold up, then their rental/streaming business is probably not legal anyway for licensing reasons, even without the circumventing-CSS issue. Disclaimer: my knowledge of this area of law is somewhat spotty, so I could be wrong.

pyre 16y ago
Not legal for licensing reasons how? If I buy a video from the store, I'm legally able to rent it out to others without the permission of the studios. Most large chains cut profit-sharing deals with the studios to get better-than-wholesale prices on DVDs. I won't comment on Redbox b/c it cuts too close to my day-job and don't want my comments coming back to bite me.
- URSpider94 16y ago
  There have been articles about Redbox that stated that it will buy retail copies of DVD's for rental, if it has to, to achieve parity with other rental companies. You're right, the studios don't like it, but there is nothing that they can do about it.

joeag 16y ago

First sale doctrine. You buy it you can rent, sell or destroy. Can't edit or change. Argument would be if you are "changing" by encoding, I would assume that's why they are stressing the DVD player solution. If you look at some of the case law, the entertainment companies used to make arguments that playing a dvd in your computer violated first sale because you were sending a digital signal to a monitor. They lost those cases.

OpieCunningham 16y ago
First sale doctrine does not allow circumvention of DRM. I don't have the CSS license in front of me, but the AACS and CPPM licenses (created by many of the same lawyers) specify exactly which types of digital outputs are allowed and what types of security are required if those digital outputs are used. IP streaming is a digital output. Assuming the CSS license is similar, if IP streaming is not listed in the CSS license, and if the security Zediva uses (assuming they use any) isn't listed, then Zediva is circumventing CSS.
- joeag 16y ago
  Actually you are stating a hypothesis as a fact. Exactly what DRM is under First Sale Doctrine is to my (somewhat rusty) knowledge, still unclear. Whatever licenses you do or don't have in front of you don't matter. That's the whole point of First Sale - you are not subject to any contract or license, it defines what you can do WITHOUT PERMISSION when you purchase a particular item.
  - OpieCunningham 16y ago
    So case law is unclear enough that I can create a CSS circumvention tool and sell it to you? No. How about if I create a CSS circumvention tool and then rent you access to that tool on a per-movie basis? That's Zediva.