7 ms·

It's prudent to note that raw, natural, unadulterated milk is very different from the processed stuff in stores, which has a dark history: https://www.smithsoni

by bsima 6y ago

It's prudent to note that raw, natural, unadulterated milk is very different from the processed stuff in stores, which has a dark history: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/19th-century-fight-bacteria-ridden-milk-embalming-fluid-180970473/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/19th-century-f... See also the book "The Untold Story of Milk" by Ron Schmid.

UnbugMe 6y ago
Yeah, I've eaten a decent amount of raw animal products of good quality and never gotten sick from them. Beef 4 times or so, pork once, sashimi and non sashimi grade fish, eggs, (daily), beef liver, cow tongue, oddly never milk yet. I don't think there is actually any good evidence that what I've done in that regard should be promoted. Price's book never promoted these things either.
dTal 6y ago
Apart from vitamin D fortification and pasteurization, what is the difference?
- bsima 6y ago
  See other comment here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23350712 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23350712 Drinking raw milk from a local farm has been one of the best things I've done in the past year for my health and nutrition. I drink almost a liter a day.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
    I believe personal experience is important in this matter. Here are some more experiences of people who drank raw milk for their health: Kylee Young was just about to turn 2 years old when she drank raw (unpasteurized) milk contaminated with E. coli O157:H7 bacteria in April of 2012. She first fell ill with bloody diarrhea. Next, Kylee developed hemolytic uremic syndrome, a complication of E. coli infection that can lead to kidney damage and central nervous system impairment. Kylee's kidneys shut down and she suffered a stroke while being treated for her E. coli infection and HUS. Less than 2 years later, before she turned 4, Kylee received a transplanted kidney from her mom. This is her family's story. Larry Pedersen had just turned one year old when he developed an E. coli O157:H7 infection in May 2008. When his diarrhea turned bloody, his parents took him for medical treatment. He was admitted to the hospital on May 8. Shortly thereafter, Larry developed hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS) and was transferred to a specialty care facility. As is typical of HUS, Larry was then suffering from acute renal failure. He was started on dialysis, which was necessary at that point for his survival. He required 15 days of dialysis before his kidneys recovered enough to function on their own. Larry was discharged on May 29, to continue recovery and treatment on an outpatient basis. The medical bills associated with his care approached $90,000. As the result of damage to his kidneys suffered during his bout with HUS, Larry is at significant risk for severe renal complications in the future. These complications include end stage renal disease (ESRD) and kidney transplant. Nicole Riggs developed an E. coli O157:H7 infection in May 2008. She was nine years old at the time. Nicole suffered from symptoms typical of E. coli O157:H7 infections – bloody diarrhea, cramping, and nausea – that quickly intensified and led to her hospitalization on May 8, 2008. Once hospitalized, Nicole developed renal failure, anemia, and thrombocytopenia (low platelet count) indicating that she was developing HUS. She was transferred to a Children’s hospital and started on dialysis in order to save her life. She received dialysis for 18 days. Nicole’s renal function slowly returned to the point that she was deemed healthy enough for discharge on June 1. After discharge, she remained under the care of a nephrologist. In addition, damage suffered during her HUS required that her gall bladder be removed. Medical costs associated with Nicole's E. coli infection and HUS exceed $180,000. As the result of damage to her kidneys suffered during her bout with HUS, Nicole is at significant risk for severe renal complications in the future. Mari Tardiff became ill with a Campylobacter infection after drinking raw milk in 2008. As a result of her Campylobacter infection, Mari developed Guillain Barré syndrome, or GBS, a potentially fatal inflammatory disorder. GBS is an infrequent, but well-known risk of Campylobacter infection. By the time she was hospitalized in mid June, Mari was essentially paralyzed. On June 15, Mari was intubated and placed on mechanical ventilation. For weeks on end, Mari’s condition remained unchanged. She was heavily sedated, unable to move, and entirely dependent on mechanical ventilation for survival. In August, there were indications of slight improvement, and the very slow process of weaning Mari off mechanical ventilation began. At the outset, it was not clear that the process was successful. Through incredible effort on Mari’s part, she was fully weaned off mechanical ventilation by August 20, and discharged to a rehabilitation facility. She spent more than two months at the rehabilitation facility diligently attempting to re-acquire the ability to speak, breathe, and move her arms and legs on her own. She was discharged home on November 1, still in need of essentially 24-hour care. Since that time, she has worked every day toward achieving her goal, as yet unreached, of walking again. Medical expenses exceed $1,000,000. Chris Martin, then age seven, developed an E. coli O157:H7 infection in September 2006 following consumption of raw milk. He was hospitalized beginning on September 8, suffering from severe gastrointestinal symptoms, including bloody diarrhea. Shortly thereafter, he developed hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS). In an effort to properly treat his rapidly deteriorating condition, Chris was moved to multiple medical facilities, twice by life-flight. His HUS was remarkably severe, marked by prolonged renal failure, pancreatitis, and severe cardiac involvement. He required 18 days of renal replacement therapy. On two occasions his cardiac problems became so severe that he was placed on a ventilator. At several junctures, the possibility that he might not survive was very real. Ultimately he was hospitalized through November 2, after incurring over $550,000 in medical bills. Renal experts have opined that Chris is likely to develop severe renal complications in the future. These complications include end stage renal disease (ESRD) and kidney transplant. Kalee Prue, a 27-year-old mother of one, became infected with E. coli O157:NM in June 2008. Her symptoms began in early July, and intensified for several days. On two occasions, Kalee sought treatment in the emergency room. On July 12, it became apparent that she was developing hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS). She was then admitted to the hospital on July 13. Kalee’s renal failure was complete and prolonged, and she required plasmapharesis from July 13 through August 11. Severe anemia necessitated repeated transfusions with packed red blood cells as well. By the time she was released from the hospital on August 14, she had incurred over $230,000 in medical bills. Kalee has not recovered full renal function. She is at severe risk for long-term renal complications, including end stage renal disease (ESRD), dialysis, and transplant. https://realrawmilkfacts.com/real-life-stories/ https://realrawmilkfacts.com/real-life-stories/
    - bsima 6y ago
      Pasteurized milk causes illness too. The key factors are the health of the cows and handling of the milk. If the cows are unhealthy, or if the dairy processing is done in an unclean space, then there could be problems. See The Untold Story of Milk for analysis/references
      - YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
        >> Pasteurized milk causes illness too. Of course. Pasteurised milk is not 100% safe to drink. However, it is much safer than raw milk: The rate of outbreaks caused by unpasteurized milk (often called raw milk) and products made from it was 150 times greater than outbreaks linked to pasteurized milk, according to a study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The 13-year review also revealed that the states where the sale of raw milk was legal had more than twice the rate of outbreaks as states where it was illegal. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2012/p0221_raw_milk_outbreak.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2012/p0221_raw_milk_outbr... Additionally, illnesses caused by pasteurised milk and dairy products tend to be less severe than those caused by raw milk: Thirteen percent of patients in raw milk outbreaks were hospitalized compared to 1 percent in pasteurized milk outbreaks. This may be because raw milk outbreaks were all caused by bacteria, such as E. coli O157, which tend to produce more severe illnesses, according to the study. Pasteurized milk and cheese outbreaks were often caused by relatively mild infections like norovirus and Staphylococcus aureus. (Same source as above). >> If the cows are unhealthy, or if the dairy processing is done in an unclean space, then there could be problems. Raw milk from healthy animals, produced and handled under the most strict hygiene standards can still cause illness: Can I still get a disease from raw milk and raw milk products if the animals are healthy, clean, and grass-fed or if the dairy is especially careful and clean when collecting the milk? Yes. Even healthy animals may carry germs that can contaminate milk. Small numbers of bacteria can multiply and grow in milk from the time it is collected until the time a person drinks it. If the milk is not pasteurized to kill germs, people who drink it can get sick. Methods for collecting milk have improved over the years but cannot be relied on to be sure milk is safe to drink. Raw milk from “certified,” “organic,” or “local” dairies is not guaranteed to be safe. Only pasteurization can make milk safe to drink. You can find pasteurized organic milk and products made from it at many local, small farms. https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-an... >> See The Untold Story of Milk for analysis/references I'm sorry, but the book you recommend is a commercial publication and I don't wish to pay to read it. Could you please provide alternative references or analysis, that are free to read? For example, references or analysis from public health bodies, or scientific publications, etc would tend to be freely available.
- balnaphone 6y ago
  The active enzymes in natural milk are substantially destroyed in the pasteurization process. Lipase is a good example, there are dozens of others.

by bsima 6y ago

UnbugMe 6y ago

Yeah, I've eaten a decent amount of raw animal products of good quality and never gotten sick from them. Beef 4 times or so, pork once, sashimi and non sashimi grade fish, eggs, (daily), beef liver, cow tongue, oddly never milk yet. I don't think there is actually any good evidence that what I've done in that regard should be promoted. Price's book never promoted these things either.

dTal 6y ago

Apart from vitamin D fortification and pasteurization, what is the difference?

bsima 6y ago
See other comment here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23350712 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23350712 Drinking raw milk from a local farm has been one of the best things I've done in the past year for my health and nutrition. I drink almost a liter a day.
- YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
  I believe personal experience is important in this matter. Here are some more experiences of people who drank raw milk for their health: Kylee Young was just about to turn 2 years old when she drank raw (unpasteurized) milk contaminated with E. coli O157:H7 bacteria in April of 2012. She first fell ill with bloody diarrhea. Next, Kylee developed hemolytic uremic syndrome, a complication of E. coli infection that can lead to kidney damage and central nervous system impairment. Kylee's kidneys shut down and she suffered a stroke while being treated for her E. coli infection and HUS. Less than 2 years later, before she turned 4, Kylee received a transplanted kidney from her mom. This is her family's story. Larry Pedersen had just turned one year old when he developed an E. coli O157:H7 infection in May 2008. When his diarrhea turned bloody, his parents took him for medical treatment. He was admitted to the hospital on May 8. Shortly thereafter, Larry developed hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS) and was transferred to a specialty care facility. As is typical of HUS, Larry was then suffering from acute renal failure. He was started on dialysis, which was necessary at that point for his survival. He required 15 days of dialysis before his kidneys recovered enough to function on their own. Larry was discharged on May 29, to continue recovery and treatment on an outpatient basis. The medical bills associated with his care approached $90,000. As the result of damage to his kidneys suffered during his bout with HUS, Larry is at significant risk for severe renal complications in the future. These complications include end stage renal disease (ESRD) and kidney transplant. Nicole Riggs developed an E. coli O157:H7 infection in May 2008. She was nine years old at the time. Nicole suffered from symptoms typical of E. coli O157:H7 infections – bloody diarrhea, cramping, and nausea – that quickly intensified and led to her hospitalization on May 8, 2008. Once hospitalized, Nicole developed renal failure, anemia, and thrombocytopenia (low platelet count) indicating that she was developing HUS. She was transferred to a Children’s hospital and started on dialysis in order to save her life. She received dialysis for 18 days. Nicole’s renal function slowly returned to the point that she was deemed healthy enough for discharge on June 1. After discharge, she remained under the care of a nephrologist. In addition, damage suffered during her HUS required that her gall bladder be removed. Medical costs associated with Nicole's E. coli infection and HUS exceed $180,000. As the result of damage to her kidneys suffered during her bout with HUS, Nicole is at significant risk for severe renal complications in the future. Mari Tardiff became ill with a Campylobacter infection after drinking raw milk in 2008. As a result of her Campylobacter infection, Mari developed Guillain Barré syndrome, or GBS, a potentially fatal inflammatory disorder. GBS is an infrequent, but well-known risk of Campylobacter infection. By the time she was hospitalized in mid June, Mari was essentially paralyzed. On June 15, Mari was intubated and placed on mechanical ventilation. For weeks on end, Mari’s condition remained unchanged. She was heavily sedated, unable to move, and entirely dependent on mechanical ventilation for survival. In August, there were indications of slight improvement, and the very slow process of weaning Mari off mechanical ventilation began. At the outset, it was not clear that the process was successful. Through incredible effort on Mari’s part, she was fully weaned off mechanical ventilation by August 20, and discharged to a rehabilitation facility. She spent more than two months at the rehabilitation facility diligently attempting to re-acquire the ability to speak, breathe, and move her arms and legs on her own. She was discharged home on November 1, still in need of essentially 24-hour care. Since that time, she has worked every day toward achieving her goal, as yet unreached, of walking again. Medical expenses exceed $1,000,000. Chris Martin, then age seven, developed an E. coli O157:H7 infection in September 2006 following consumption of raw milk. He was hospitalized beginning on September 8, suffering from severe gastrointestinal symptoms, including bloody diarrhea. Shortly thereafter, he developed hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS). In an effort to properly treat his rapidly deteriorating condition, Chris was moved to multiple medical facilities, twice by life-flight. His HUS was remarkably severe, marked by prolonged renal failure, pancreatitis, and severe cardiac involvement. He required 18 days of renal replacement therapy. On two occasions his cardiac problems became so severe that he was placed on a ventilator. At several junctures, the possibility that he might not survive was very real. Ultimately he was hospitalized through November 2, after incurring over $550,000 in medical bills. Renal experts have opined that Chris is likely to develop severe renal complications in the future. These complications include end stage renal disease (ESRD) and kidney transplant. Kalee Prue, a 27-year-old mother of one, became infected with E. coli O157:NM in June 2008. Her symptoms began in early July, and intensified for several days. On two occasions, Kalee sought treatment in the emergency room. On July 12, it became apparent that she was developing hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS). She was then admitted to the hospital on July 13. Kalee’s renal failure was complete and prolonged, and she required plasmapharesis from July 13 through August 11. Severe anemia necessitated repeated transfusions with packed red blood cells as well. By the time she was released from the hospital on August 14, she had incurred over $230,000 in medical bills. Kalee has not recovered full renal function. She is at severe risk for long-term renal complications, including end stage renal disease (ESRD), dialysis, and transplant. https://realrawmilkfacts.com/real-life-stories/ https://realrawmilkfacts.com/real-life-stories/
  - bsima 6y ago
    Pasteurized milk causes illness too. The key factors are the health of the cows and handling of the milk. If the cows are unhealthy, or if the dairy processing is done in an unclean space, then there could be problems. See The Untold Story of Milk for analysis/references
    - YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
      >> Pasteurized milk causes illness too. Of course. Pasteurised milk is not 100% safe to drink. However, it is much safer than raw milk: The rate of outbreaks caused by unpasteurized milk (often called raw milk) and products made from it was 150 times greater than outbreaks linked to pasteurized milk, according to a study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The 13-year review also revealed that the states where the sale of raw milk was legal had more than twice the rate of outbreaks as states where it was illegal. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2012/p0221_raw_milk_outbreak.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2012/p0221_raw_milk_outbr... Additionally, illnesses caused by pasteurised milk and dairy products tend to be less severe than those caused by raw milk: Thirteen percent of patients in raw milk outbreaks were hospitalized compared to 1 percent in pasteurized milk outbreaks. This may be because raw milk outbreaks were all caused by bacteria, such as E. coli O157, which tend to produce more severe illnesses, according to the study. Pasteurized milk and cheese outbreaks were often caused by relatively mild infections like norovirus and Staphylococcus aureus. (Same source as above). >> If the cows are unhealthy, or if the dairy processing is done in an unclean space, then there could be problems. Raw milk from healthy animals, produced and handled under the most strict hygiene standards can still cause illness: Can I still get a disease from raw milk and raw milk products if the animals are healthy, clean, and grass-fed or if the dairy is especially careful and clean when collecting the milk? Yes. Even healthy animals may carry germs that can contaminate milk. Small numbers of bacteria can multiply and grow in milk from the time it is collected until the time a person drinks it. If the milk is not pasteurized to kill germs, people who drink it can get sick. Methods for collecting milk have improved over the years but cannot be relied on to be sure milk is safe to drink. Raw milk from “certified,” “organic,” or “local” dairies is not guaranteed to be safe. Only pasteurization can make milk safe to drink. You can find pasteurized organic milk and products made from it at many local, small farms. https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-an... >> See The Untold Story of Milk for analysis/references I'm sorry, but the book you recommend is a commercial publication and I don't wish to pay to read it. Could you please provide alternative references or analysis, that are free to read? For example, references or analysis from public health bodies, or scientific publications, etc would tend to be freely available.
balnaphone 6y ago
The active enzymes in natural milk are substantially destroyed in the pasteurization process. Lipase is a good example, there are dozens of others.