6 ms·

Its complex, but Price suggested vitamin K from animal fats was the key element. All traditional diets were heavy in animal fats, either meat or raw dairy/chees

by bsima 6y ago

Its complex, but Price suggested vitamin K from animal fats was the key element. All traditional diets were heavy in animal fats, either meat or raw dairy/cheese. Vegetables and fruit were only eaten seasonally, and not in high volume.

dTal 6y ago
>raw dairy/cheese Why "raw"? Is pasteurization bad?
- bsima 6y ago
  Yes it is. Pasteurization destroys the nutrients and beneficial bacteria. Raw milk from healthy cows is a probiotic like yogurt and extremely health promoting. People that are supposedly lactose intolerant are often able to drink raw milk after an adjustment period, probably because they improve their microbiome. See https://www.realmilk.com/ https://www.realmilk.com/ (one of the good things the WAPF has done) and the book "The Untold Story of Milk" for a fascinating tell-all,including how pasteurization was initially used because producers were spiking milk with chalk and embalming fluid and literally feeding dairy cows shit, public health officials had no other way to control the milk supply.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
    realmilk.com is the website of a campaign for raw milk by the Weston A. Price Foundation. Being the website of an activist organisation it is not a source that is likely to be objective. Especially troublesome is the clear attempt to rebrand raw milk as "real milk", possibly to avoid the negative associations that most people rightly make with raw milk. I cite below from the wikipedia page on raw milk, which is more likely to be an objective source: With the exception of an altered organoleptic [flavor] profile, heating (particularly ultra high temperature and similar treatments) will not substantially change the nutritional value of raw milk or other benefits associated with raw milk consumption."[20] Raw milk advocates, such as the Weston A. Price Foundation, say that raw milk can be produced hygienically, and that it has health benefits that are destroyed in the pasteurization process.[2] Research shows only very slight differences in the nutritional values of pasteurized and unpasteurized milk.[12][20] Three studies have found a statistically significant inverse relationship between consumption of raw milk and asthma and allergies.[28][29][30] However, all of these studies have been performed in children living on farms and living a farming lifestyle, rather than comparing urban children living typical urban lifestyles and with typical urban exposures on the basis of consumption or nonconsumption of raw milk. Aspects of the overall urban vs. farming environment lifestyle have been suggested as having a role in these differences, and for this reason, the overall phenomenon has been named the "farm effect". Also see webpages (and a pdf report) on drinking raw milk from the US FDA and CDC, UK FSA and EU EFSA, below: The Dangers of Raw Milk: Unpasteurized Milk Can Pose a Serious Health Risk https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/dangers-raw-milk-unpasteurized-milk-can-pose-serious-health-risk https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/dangers-r... Raw (Unpasteurized) Milk https://www.cdc.gov/features/rawmilk/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/features/rawmilk/index.html Raw drinking milk https://www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/raw-drinking-milk https://www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/raw-drinking-milk Scientific opinion on the public health risks related to the consumption of raw drinking milk https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.2903/j.efsa.2015.3940 https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.2903/j.efsa... tl;dr all major public health agencies in the US and Europe advise against consumption of raw milk.
    - bsima 6y ago
      I have looked at all of these arguments in depth and recommend you read at least "The Untold Story of Milk" before making conclusions. The history of raw milk has been tainted with misinformed public policy. The dangers of unpasteurized milk are highly over-exaggerated. To put it bluntly, I don't trust the government's assessments about raw dairy. On a practical level, consider this: people drank milk for thousands of years, but we only started pasteurizing it in the early 1900s. Do you really think people before 1900 were just living with these supposed diseases of raw milk, completely unawares? No, they drank raw milk and they were fine.
      - D-Coder 6y ago
        > Do you really think people before 1900 were just living with these supposed diseases of raw milk, completely unawares? No, they drank raw milk and they were fine. Except for the ones who died. Life expectancy has gone up dramatically since 1900.
      - YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
        >> On a practical level, consider this: people drank milk for thousands of years, but we only started pasteurizing it in the early 1900s. Do you really think people before 1900 were just living with these supposed diseases of raw milk, completely unawares? No, they drank raw milk and they were fine. People fall ill from drinking raw milk and even die today, when we have a better understanding of the causes of disease and have much better hygiene standards. I don't understand why you expect that this happened less, or not at all (?) in the past. >> To put it bluntly, I don't trust the government's assessments about raw dairy. Which government's? I linked to sites from the US, the UK and the EU. They are representative of health agencies from around the world. In any case, this is from the WHO, i.e. not a governmental source: Salmonella, Campylobacter, and Enterohaemorrhagic Escherichia coli are among the most common foodborne pathogens that affect millions of people annually – sometimes with severe and fatal outcomes. Symptoms are fever, headache, nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain and diarrhoea. Examples of foods involved in outbreaks of salmonellosis are eggs, poultry and other products of animal origin. Foodborne cases with Campylobacter are mainly caused by raw milk, raw or undercooked poultry and drinking water. Enterohaemorrhagic Escherichia coli is associated with unpasteurized milk, undercooked meat and fresh fruits and vegetables. Listeria infection leads to miscarriage in pregnant women or death of newborn babies. Although disease occurrence is relatively low, listeria’s severe and sometimes fatal health consequences, particularly among infants, children and the elderly, count them among the most serious foodborne infections. Listeria is found in unpasteurised dairy products and various ready-to-eat foods and can grow at refrigeration temperatures. https://www.who.int/NEWS-ROOM/FACT-SHEETS/DETAIL/FOOD-SAFETY https://www.who.int/NEWS-ROOM/FACT-SHEETS/DETAIL/FOOD-SAFETY It's interesting to note that some of the diesease associated with raw milk consumption are also caused by consumption of other foods, e.g. raw meat or raw eggs etc. It doesn't make a lot of sense to think that it's possible to get, e.g. E. coli from raw meat, but not from raw milk.

by bsima 6y ago

dTal 6y ago

>raw dairy/cheese Why "raw"? Is pasteurization bad?

bsima 6y ago
Yes it is. Pasteurization destroys the nutrients and beneficial bacteria. Raw milk from healthy cows is a probiotic like yogurt and extremely health promoting. People that are supposedly lactose intolerant are often able to drink raw milk after an adjustment period, probably because they improve their microbiome. See https://www.realmilk.com/ https://www.realmilk.com/ (one of the good things the WAPF has done) and the book "The Untold Story of Milk" for a fascinating tell-all,including how pasteurization was initially used because producers were spiking milk with chalk and embalming fluid and literally feeding dairy cows shit, public health officials had no other way to control the milk supply.
- YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
  realmilk.com is the website of a campaign for raw milk by the Weston A. Price Foundation. Being the website of an activist organisation it is not a source that is likely to be objective. Especially troublesome is the clear attempt to rebrand raw milk as "real milk", possibly to avoid the negative associations that most people rightly make with raw milk. I cite below from the wikipedia page on raw milk, which is more likely to be an objective source: With the exception of an altered organoleptic [flavor] profile, heating (particularly ultra high temperature and similar treatments) will not substantially change the nutritional value of raw milk or other benefits associated with raw milk consumption."[20] Raw milk advocates, such as the Weston A. Price Foundation, say that raw milk can be produced hygienically, and that it has health benefits that are destroyed in the pasteurization process.[2] Research shows only very slight differences in the nutritional values of pasteurized and unpasteurized milk.[12][20] Three studies have found a statistically significant inverse relationship between consumption of raw milk and asthma and allergies.[28][29][30] However, all of these studies have been performed in children living on farms and living a farming lifestyle, rather than comparing urban children living typical urban lifestyles and with typical urban exposures on the basis of consumption or nonconsumption of raw milk. Aspects of the overall urban vs. farming environment lifestyle have been suggested as having a role in these differences, and for this reason, the overall phenomenon has been named the "farm effect". Also see webpages (and a pdf report) on drinking raw milk from the US FDA and CDC, UK FSA and EU EFSA, below: The Dangers of Raw Milk: Unpasteurized Milk Can Pose a Serious Health Risk https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/dangers-raw-milk-unpasteurized-milk-can-pose-serious-health-risk https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/dangers-r... Raw (Unpasteurized) Milk https://www.cdc.gov/features/rawmilk/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/features/rawmilk/index.html Raw drinking milk https://www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/raw-drinking-milk https://www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/raw-drinking-milk Scientific opinion on the public health risks related to the consumption of raw drinking milk https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.2903/j.efsa.2015.3940 https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.2903/j.efsa... tl;dr all major public health agencies in the US and Europe advise against consumption of raw milk.
  - bsima 6y ago
    I have looked at all of these arguments in depth and recommend you read at least "The Untold Story of Milk" before making conclusions. The history of raw milk has been tainted with misinformed public policy. The dangers of unpasteurized milk are highly over-exaggerated. To put it bluntly, I don't trust the government's assessments about raw dairy. On a practical level, consider this: people drank milk for thousands of years, but we only started pasteurizing it in the early 1900s. Do you really think people before 1900 were just living with these supposed diseases of raw milk, completely unawares? No, they drank raw milk and they were fine.
    - D-Coder 6y ago
      > Do you really think people before 1900 were just living with these supposed diseases of raw milk, completely unawares? No, they drank raw milk and they were fine. Except for the ones who died. Life expectancy has gone up dramatically since 1900.
    - YeGoblynQueenne 6y ago
      >> On a practical level, consider this: people drank milk for thousands of years, but we only started pasteurizing it in the early 1900s. Do you really think people before 1900 were just living with these supposed diseases of raw milk, completely unawares? No, they drank raw milk and they were fine. People fall ill from drinking raw milk and even die today, when we have a better understanding of the causes of disease and have much better hygiene standards. I don't understand why you expect that this happened less, or not at all (?) in the past. >> To put it bluntly, I don't trust the government's assessments about raw dairy. Which government's? I linked to sites from the US, the UK and the EU. They are representative of health agencies from around the world. In any case, this is from the WHO, i.e. not a governmental source: Salmonella, Campylobacter, and Enterohaemorrhagic Escherichia coli are among the most common foodborne pathogens that affect millions of people annually – sometimes with severe and fatal outcomes. Symptoms are fever, headache, nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain and diarrhoea. Examples of foods involved in outbreaks of salmonellosis are eggs, poultry and other products of animal origin. Foodborne cases with Campylobacter are mainly caused by raw milk, raw or undercooked poultry and drinking water. Enterohaemorrhagic Escherichia coli is associated with unpasteurized milk, undercooked meat and fresh fruits and vegetables. Listeria infection leads to miscarriage in pregnant women or death of newborn babies. Although disease occurrence is relatively low, listeria’s severe and sometimes fatal health consequences, particularly among infants, children and the elderly, count them among the most serious foodborne infections. Listeria is found in unpasteurised dairy products and various ready-to-eat foods and can grow at refrigeration temperatures. https://www.who.int/NEWS-ROOM/FACT-SHEETS/DETAIL/FOOD-SAFETY https://www.who.int/NEWS-ROOM/FACT-SHEETS/DETAIL/FOOD-SAFETY It's interesting to note that some of the diesease associated with raw milk consumption are also caused by consumption of other foods, e.g. raw meat or raw eggs etc. It doesn't make a lot of sense to think that it's possible to get, e.g. E. coli from raw meat, but not from raw milk.