4 ms·

What laws? -This has not been a real issue for a while now(in the US/Can that is)

by jrace 6y ago

jedberg 6y ago
General liability. There are some laws that specifically exempt food donations, but they still have "gross negligence" clauses, and it's easier to just not donate than worry about getting sued for gross negligence.
- mthoms 6y ago
  Why are you all over this topic trying to support this misinformation? You've already been corrected (with citations) and yet you continue. Is it just a matter of being seen as "wrong", because it's okay. Really, it is. It's a very common myth. You claimed "There is a super high risk of getting sued if you give away food and someone gets sick". Now if you want to continue this claim, you need to provide citations. Who, exactly says that such "high risk" exists?
  - jedberg 6y ago
    I worked with restaurants in a previous business. We tried to get them to donate food. Not a single one would because they were afraid of even the chance of being sued, because their liability insurance would not cover donations. Their insurers and lawyers all advised against donating unused food because of the risk of a lawsuit that wasn't covered by insurance. So people can post all the "facts" they want to but the crux of the matter is that most restaurants are very risk averse and donating food is a risk.
    - Melting_Harps 6y ago
      > So people can post all the "facts" they want to but the crux of the matter is that most restaurants are very risk averse and donating food is a risk. Very. I resorted to creating a cycle count in the walk in after every shift (off the clock) and giving it away pre-packaged 'meal prep' to employees, as most were just college kids, as so much high quality Salmon, chicken breast and other proteins that otherwise just ended up wasted. Its ironic because this restaurant got a James Beard Award for sustainability and low waste practices. In other places I just made family meal with the 'scraps' leftover for BOH/FOH family meals as we normally got off at ~2am and choices for food sucked. Its just something I had adapted to after my apprenticeship in Biodynamic Ag, and wished I saw more of it in the Industry. I'm not sure what to make of the bike thing, as the Lime scooters I rode were already pretty beat up and I used them not long after the deployed. I can't imagine what it must of have been for these bikes, the Google bikes around the Boulder campus look decent from afar (they're non EV, I think), but I never rode one so can't speak to its life-time. Waste in all transportation looks like this, I wish I could show the amount of recall parts I threw out on a daily basis at BMW but I signed an NDA. Its often cheaper to just discard the parts as-is at a minor loss than it is to pay for a much bigger loss for shipping back to a factory and then pay staff to sort through it and only to do the same at their local facility. I'm talking about pallet loads of differentials, driveshafts, and engine blocks as well as crate loads of ECUs etc... Although to be fair we did sell those for metal for their junk PM prices if/when I had down time. I actually re-learned how to solder, barely only ok at it now, because I was taking wiring harnesses and LED taillights home and tearing them apart and putting them back together. This is how a lot of VWs sat for a little over 2 years after the buyback [1]. Some made it back into the market, many didn't and I was just glad I wasn't in the Industry by then as it made me physically ill to see the waste a SOFTWARE issue ended up costing in an Environmental level. 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/22/business/volkswagen-diesel-vw-tdi-resales.html#commentsContainer https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/22/business/volkswagen-diese...
    - mthoms 6y ago
      > "facts" I referenced a legal organization which specializes in the area. The other citation quoted two additional lawyers plus organizations which do this regularly. If you want to dispute what they said, provide your own rebuttal with citations. Don't be childish by suggesting I've made misrepresentations. > the crux of the matter is that most restaurants are very risk averse and donating food is a risk. The risk is so infinitesimally small that's it has never happened in the 25 or so years since the relevant legislation was introduced! I mean, if you want to describe that as "super high risk" like you did, I don't know what to tell you. I really don't. > I worked with restaurants in a previous business. We tried to get them to donate food. Not a single one would because they were afraid of even the chance of being sued, because their liability insurance would not cover donations. Their insurers and lawyers all advised against donating unused food because of the risk of a lawsuit that wasn't covered by insurance. Based on your cavalier attitude in spreading false information around the topic (while millions of Americans starve) I find it really, really hard to believe that this is something you would champion. Like, impossibly hard. Never mind that I'd expect someone intelligent like yourself to know what the law actually says if you were lobbying donations. I'm frankly, very surprised you're so cavalier in spreading this misinformation. Stop spreading this lie and maybe less people will go hungry. Frankly, I expected better from such a prominent HN'er.
      - jedberg 6y ago
        I think you misunderstand me. Food waste is a terrible problem in this country. It is driven by a poor regulatory and legal environment that introduces unnecessary risk for restaurant owners to donate their food. With the way things are now, it is too risky for a restaurant to donate. They haven’t been sued because they don’t typically do it. I think major changes need to be made. I think restaurants should be required to donate all extra viable food. I think insurance should be required to cover those donations so they absorb the liability and therefore enforce safety. But the way things stand now, you can’t in good conscience tell a restaurant to donate food without an intermediary organization in the area, and even then it’s risky.
        mthoms 6y ago
        >it is too risky for a restaurant to donate No it isn't. It's perceived as too risky but that perception is demonstrably false. I've provided solid proof of this and you've provided nothing. >They haven’t been sued because they don’t typically do it. You can keep repeating the same things over and over all you want. But until you back it up with supporting citations it appears you're just making things up. Statistically speaking, if X00,000 restaurants and stores are doing it today without being sued, it's pretty safe to say it will be similar for X,000,000. >But the way things stand now, you can’t in good conscience tell a restaurant to donate food without an intermediary organization in the area, and even then it’s risky. Show me anything (tweet, blog post, whatever) from an actual lawyer or legal organization supporting this opinion and I'll donate $25 to the Food Bank of your choice (I'm serious). I've provided legal support for my side of the argument already. It's your turn. The thing that's so infuriating here is that that you're exasperating the problem you claim to want to solve. People scan threads and see this myth repeated so it reinforces their misconception about the matter. Not only are you not helping, you're actively making it worse. Shame on you.

What laws? -This has not been a real issue for a while now(in the US/Can that is)

by jrace 6y ago

What laws? -This has not been a real issue for a while now(in the US/Can that is)

General liability. There are some laws that specifically exempt food donations, but they still have "gross negligence" clauses, and it's easier to just not donate than worry about getting sued for gross negligence.

mthoms 6y ago
Why are you all over this topic trying to support this misinformation? You've already been corrected (with citations) and yet you continue. Is it just a matter of being seen as "wrong", because it's okay. Really, it is. It's a very common myth. You claimed "There is a super high risk of getting sued if you give away food and someone gets sick". Now if you want to continue this claim, you need to provide citations. Who, exactly says that such "high risk" exists?
- jedberg 6y ago
  I worked with restaurants in a previous business. We tried to get them to donate food. Not a single one would because they were afraid of even the chance of being sued, because their liability insurance would not cover donations. Their insurers and lawyers all advised against donating unused food because of the risk of a lawsuit that wasn't covered by insurance. So people can post all the "facts" they want to but the crux of the matter is that most restaurants are very risk averse and donating food is a risk.
  - Melting_Harps 6y ago
    > So people can post all the "facts" they want to but the crux of the matter is that most restaurants are very risk averse and donating food is a risk. Very. I resorted to creating a cycle count in the walk in after every shift (off the clock) and giving it away pre-packaged 'meal prep' to employees, as most were just college kids, as so much high quality Salmon, chicken breast and other proteins that otherwise just ended up wasted. Its ironic because this restaurant got a James Beard Award for sustainability and low waste practices. In other places I just made family meal with the 'scraps' leftover for BOH/FOH family meals as we normally got off at ~2am and choices for food sucked. Its just something I had adapted to after my apprenticeship in Biodynamic Ag, and wished I saw more of it in the Industry. I'm not sure what to make of the bike thing, as the Lime scooters I rode were already pretty beat up and I used them not long after the deployed. I can't imagine what it must of have been for these bikes, the Google bikes around the Boulder campus look decent from afar (they're non EV, I think), but I never rode one so can't speak to its life-time. Waste in all transportation looks like this, I wish I could show the amount of recall parts I threw out on a daily basis at BMW but I signed an NDA. Its often cheaper to just discard the parts as-is at a minor loss than it is to pay for a much bigger loss for shipping back to a factory and then pay staff to sort through it and only to do the same at their local facility. I'm talking about pallet loads of differentials, driveshafts, and engine blocks as well as crate loads of ECUs etc... Although to be fair we did sell those for metal for their junk PM prices if/when I had down time. I actually re-learned how to solder, barely only ok at it now, because I was taking wiring harnesses and LED taillights home and tearing them apart and putting them back together. This is how a lot of VWs sat for a little over 2 years after the buyback [1]. Some made it back into the market, many didn't and I was just glad I wasn't in the Industry by then as it made me physically ill to see the waste a SOFTWARE issue ended up costing in an Environmental level. 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/22/business/volkswagen-diesel-vw-tdi-resales.html#commentsContainer https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/22/business/volkswagen-diese...
  - mthoms 6y ago
    > "facts" I referenced a legal organization which specializes in the area. The other citation quoted two additional lawyers plus organizations which do this regularly. If you want to dispute what they said, provide your own rebuttal with citations. Don't be childish by suggesting I've made misrepresentations. > the crux of the matter is that most restaurants are very risk averse and donating food is a risk. The risk is so infinitesimally small that's it has never happened in the 25 or so years since the relevant legislation was introduced! I mean, if you want to describe that as "super high risk" like you did, I don't know what to tell you. I really don't. > I worked with restaurants in a previous business. We tried to get them to donate food. Not a single one would because they were afraid of even the chance of being sued, because their liability insurance would not cover donations. Their insurers and lawyers all advised against donating unused food because of the risk of a lawsuit that wasn't covered by insurance. Based on your cavalier attitude in spreading false information around the topic (while millions of Americans starve) I find it really, really hard to believe that this is something you would champion. Like, impossibly hard. Never mind that I'd expect someone intelligent like yourself to know what the law actually says if you were lobbying donations. I'm frankly, very surprised you're so cavalier in spreading this misinformation. Stop spreading this lie and maybe less people will go hungry. Frankly, I expected better from such a prominent HN'er.
    - jedberg 6y ago
      I think you misunderstand me. Food waste is a terrible problem in this country. It is driven by a poor regulatory and legal environment that introduces unnecessary risk for restaurant owners to donate their food. With the way things are now, it is too risky for a restaurant to donate. They haven’t been sued because they don’t typically do it. I think major changes need to be made. I think restaurants should be required to donate all extra viable food. I think insurance should be required to cover those donations so they absorb the liability and therefore enforce safety. But the way things stand now, you can’t in good conscience tell a restaurant to donate food without an intermediary organization in the area, and even then it’s risky.
      - mthoms 6y ago
        >it is too risky for a restaurant to donate No it isn't. It's perceived as too risky but that perception is demonstrably false. I've provided solid proof of this and you've provided nothing. >They haven’t been sued because they don’t typically do it. You can keep repeating the same things over and over all you want. But until you back it up with supporting citations it appears you're just making things up. Statistically speaking, if X00,000 restaurants and stores are doing it today without being sued, it's pretty safe to say it will be similar for X,000,000. >But the way things stand now, you can’t in good conscience tell a restaurant to donate food without an intermediary organization in the area, and even then it’s risky. Show me anything (tweet, blog post, whatever) from an actual lawyer or legal organization supporting this opinion and I'll donate $25 to the Food Bank of your choice (I'm serious). I've provided legal support for my side of the argument already. It's your turn. The thing that's so infuriating here is that that you're exasperating the problem you claim to want to solve. People scan threads and see this myth repeated so it reinforces their misconception about the matter. Not only are you not helping, you're actively making it worse. Shame on you.