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One of the most interesting aspects of the remote work discussion is just how emotional a topic it is for many people – on both sides. I've seen die-hards in bo

One of the most interesting aspects of the remote work discussion is just how emotional a topic it is for many people – on both sides. I've seen die-hards in both the pro-office and pro-remote camps, seemingly without a clear pattern. This is exacerbated by the fact that people often want to convert others to their side. If you're pro-remote, going all-remote creates an even playing field. If you're pro-office, having everyone in the office creates the collaborative environment that you prefer. Managing these opposing viewpoints in a productive way will be an interesting leadership challenge for many teams.

wtetzner 6y ago
I wonder if teams will end up being organized based on preferred work location (in office vs WFH) in the future.
- staysaasy 6y ago
  That's an interesting idea that I haven't heard discussed yet. I think it makes a lot of sense, as the remote vs in-office divide is more pronounced when the experience isn't uniform.
whyhow 6y ago
I've seen this too. Personally I think both environments are really valuable. I really prefer meeting folks in person, but my home is nicer for hard problems that require concentration. I just want to split my time evenly between the two.
- ghaff 6y ago
  >I really prefer meeting folks in person I mostly don't do that in an office but I do for traveling/events which are pretty much off the table for an indefinite time. I meet far more of my colleagues at events than I do at my company offices. That's the difficult thing for me right now.
jinglebells 6y ago
If you're "Pro-office" you're dictatorial. This is a problem. The cat is out of the bag. I haven't worked in an office in nearly a decade, anyone saying "you have to be in the office" will be drawing from a dwindling pool of supplies.
- mjhoy 6y ago
  I'm pro-office, and I'm not a manager or anything. I just prefer working in offices, and prefer when my colleagues do too, because I find face-to-face interaction much more satisfying.
- alesua93 6y ago
  Way to exemplify OPs point. I mean, I consider myself Pro-office because I like to personally interact with my coworkers, and I also enjoy the feeling of camaraderie that comes when a bunch of people get together to tackle a certain problem. Depending on your company, a lot of things can also get sorted out quicker when you can talk face to face to your manager/colleagues (though good processes and practices can mitigate this somewhat). I don't have strong opinions on whether other people should or should not WFH, however. I don't see the need to make this an us vs them issue, at least not when talking between us regular programmers (I am in favor of taking the fight to the higher-ups, though).
  - wtetzner 6y ago
    > and I also enjoy the feeling of camaraderie that comes when a bunch of people get together to tackle a certain problem I don't really disagree with anything you've said, but I don't see why you can't get that same feeling of camaraderie when working remotely.
buboard 6y ago
it's illogical for a remote worker to return to an office, it's a regression to older technology (aside from subjective views). The reverse is not true. Therefore, one side is clearly using subjective feelings as arguments, and the other side is angered by how illogical it all is.
- rainyMammoth 6y ago
  I think you explained it right. Over the last couple of years I started working from home more and more to the point that I'm considering going full remote after this pandemic. The way I see it is an evolution from old-school thinking to the future of work. Going remote IS going to be the future that we like it or not. Every year our collaboration tools become better and better and as new generation come into the workforce they will increasingly start by being remote first. It is as if you drove a car after using horse your whole life but a subset of people want to convince you that everyone should go back to horses because it's easier to have that "feeling of camaraderie" with your engine.
- watwut 6y ago
  I dont think your claim is logical. It is not logical to assume that newer means better for everyone. The return to office can be rational move back after doing move that made things worst. This is confusing own subjective preference and own evaluation shortcut with "objectively better". And I am saying that as someone who plans to work more from home after covid ends.
Consultant32452 6y ago
One aspect of this is that introverts have been living in an world designed maximally for the liking and benefit of extroverts and now the tables have turned completely. It's one of those situations where you have a privilege you weren't aware of, and then lost it, so it feels like an assault. To any extroverts really struggling, I get it. I understand how difficult it must be. I mean this with no ill intentions at all, but I've felt the way you're feeling my whole working life, working in an environment not suited to my personality at all. I hope you too can have empathy for the people on the other side who have had to live in your world.
- anyfoo 6y ago
  Will you stop it with the "oh no extroverts" stuff? I am definitely an extrovert, and I greatly prefer working from home. With only a few days here and there (certainly not necessarily every week) to meet up with people face to face. I am more productive like this, and much happier. Being an extrovert does not mean that you need or enjoy the company of any people any time.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    And the binary gradations generally. I'm not even sure which I am. I like being on stage, going to events, etc. But I have also written books (which take a lot of private research/writing time) and I definitely don't naturally gravitate towards engaging in conversation with people I don't know. I don't miss an office which I haven't really worked in for a while but I miss events and so forth a great deal.
    - HighPlainsDrftr 6y ago
      For me, I've always liked working in an office, but I've always hated, what should I call it - drama/politics/whatever? I've worked in such wierd places over the years. For example, if you had an office of 100 people, 10 were on your team, I would probably not like 2 of the people on my team and 20 in the office. Most of the time, this is not a problem. However, you get around people that you really like and tell a joke, or you just say something a bit freely - and all of a sudden, you now have people that don't like you. (The specific office situation I'm thinking of had an average of salary of $15k at the time - but our group probably had an average of $150k at the time). It was tough. I don't think it was a good idea overall either. I've seen other situations like it as well. I don't like working from at home. But I hate dealing with that kind of bullshit.

wtetzner 6y ago

I wonder if teams will end up being organized based on preferred work location (in office vs WFH) in the future.

staysaasy 6y ago
That's an interesting idea that I haven't heard discussed yet. I think it makes a lot of sense, as the remote vs in-office divide is more pronounced when the experience isn't uniform.

whyhow 6y ago

I've seen this too. Personally I think both environments are really valuable. I really prefer meeting folks in person, but my home is nicer for hard problems that require concentration. I just want to split my time evenly between the two.

ghaff 6y ago
>I really prefer meeting folks in person I mostly don't do that in an office but I do for traveling/events which are pretty much off the table for an indefinite time. I meet far more of my colleagues at events than I do at my company offices. That's the difficult thing for me right now.

jinglebells 6y ago

If you're "Pro-office" you're dictatorial. This is a problem. The cat is out of the bag. I haven't worked in an office in nearly a decade, anyone saying "you have to be in the office" will be drawing from a dwindling pool of supplies.

mjhoy 6y ago
I'm pro-office, and I'm not a manager or anything. I just prefer working in offices, and prefer when my colleagues do too, because I find face-to-face interaction much more satisfying.
alesua93 6y ago
Way to exemplify OPs point. I mean, I consider myself Pro-office because I like to personally interact with my coworkers, and I also enjoy the feeling of camaraderie that comes when a bunch of people get together to tackle a certain problem. Depending on your company, a lot of things can also get sorted out quicker when you can talk face to face to your manager/colleagues (though good processes and practices can mitigate this somewhat). I don't have strong opinions on whether other people should or should not WFH, however. I don't see the need to make this an us vs them issue, at least not when talking between us regular programmers (I am in favor of taking the fight to the higher-ups, though).
- wtetzner 6y ago
  > and I also enjoy the feeling of camaraderie that comes when a bunch of people get together to tackle a certain problem I don't really disagree with anything you've said, but I don't see why you can't get that same feeling of camaraderie when working remotely.

buboard 6y ago

it's illogical for a remote worker to return to an office, it's a regression to older technology (aside from subjective views). The reverse is not true. Therefore, one side is clearly using subjective feelings as arguments, and the other side is angered by how illogical it all is.

rainyMammoth 6y ago
I think you explained it right. Over the last couple of years I started working from home more and more to the point that I'm considering going full remote after this pandemic. The way I see it is an evolution from old-school thinking to the future of work. Going remote IS going to be the future that we like it or not. Every year our collaboration tools become better and better and as new generation come into the workforce they will increasingly start by being remote first. It is as if you drove a car after using horse your whole life but a subset of people want to convince you that everyone should go back to horses because it's easier to have that "feeling of camaraderie" with your engine.
watwut 6y ago
I dont think your claim is logical. It is not logical to assume that newer means better for everyone. The return to office can be rational move back after doing move that made things worst. This is confusing own subjective preference and own evaluation shortcut with "objectively better". And I am saying that as someone who plans to work more from home after covid ends.

Consultant32452 6y ago

One aspect of this is that introverts have been living in an world designed maximally for the liking and benefit of extroverts and now the tables have turned completely. It's one of those situations where you have a privilege you weren't aware of, and then lost it, so it feels like an assault. To any extroverts really struggling, I get it. I understand how difficult it must be. I mean this with no ill intentions at all, but I've felt the way you're feeling my whole working life, working in an environment not suited to my personality at all. I hope you too can have empathy for the people on the other side who have had to live in your world.

anyfoo 6y ago
Will you stop it with the "oh no extroverts" stuff? I am definitely an extrovert, and I greatly prefer working from home. With only a few days here and there (certainly not necessarily every week) to meet up with people face to face. I am more productive like this, and much happier. Being an extrovert does not mean that you need or enjoy the company of any people any time.
- ghaff 6y ago
  And the binary gradations generally. I'm not even sure which I am. I like being on stage, going to events, etc. But I have also written books (which take a lot of private research/writing time) and I definitely don't naturally gravitate towards engaging in conversation with people I don't know. I don't miss an office which I haven't really worked in for a while but I miss events and so forth a great deal.
  - HighPlainsDrftr 6y ago
    For me, I've always liked working in an office, but I've always hated, what should I call it - drama/politics/whatever? I've worked in such wierd places over the years. For example, if you had an office of 100 people, 10 were on your team, I would probably not like 2 of the people on my team and 20 in the office. Most of the time, this is not a problem. However, you get around people that you really like and tell a joke, or you just say something a bit freely - and all of a sudden, you now have people that don't like you. (The specific office situation I'm thinking of had an average of salary of $15k at the time - but our group probably had an average of $150k at the time). It was tough. I don't think it was a good idea overall either. I've seen other situations like it as well. I don't like working from at home. But I hate dealing with that kind of bullshit.