6 ms·

Yeah, but my car has air conditioning, and it's not going away. It needs a button to turn it on and off. It gets pressed several times a day for 20 years (excep

Yeah, but my car has air conditioning, and it's not going away. It needs a button to turn it on and off. It gets pressed several times a day for 20 years (except winter). Why does that button ever need to change?

WalterBright 6y ago
Yet change it does. In my old car, the A/C is a button labeled "A/C". In new cars, I can't figure out how to turn it on. It's similar to each iteration of Windows. I'm convinced that Microsoft takes 1000 darts, labels each with a command like "backup", and has a blind monkey throw it at a dartboard to determine where it goes. At least Microsoft labels them with words, like "Control Panel", even though what's in it is completely random from one iteration to the next. The car companies label all the buttons with random splotches inspired by fingerpainting toddlers.
- supernova87a 6y ago
  cf. BMW's dumb iDrive system edit: and now that I think about it, I'm suddenly interested in understanding why consumer products seem averse to providing detailed/specific buttons compared to professional products? Is it to try to not overwhelm the casual / amateur user? (or conversely to be able to reach that user) For example, professional video cameras that have physical buttons and dials for every function, versus consumer cameras that hide that 3 layers deep in a virtual menu. Or, the cockpit of a jet (and all its displays and controls) versus a passenger car. Or how about a long-distance truck console -- is it similar? Maybe it's the issue of casual / lowest common demoninator users not being overwhelmed by such detail. Or that if you cannot filter your users to the ones who can or want to handle the detail, you have to design to the lowest bar. Which is a shame for those who want / like the detail.
  - milesvp 6y ago
    I suspect a lot of it has to do with cost. Iterating hardware is expensive. On top of that tactile buttons are more expensive than you'd think, and Bill Of Materials can trump a lot of other decisions in hardware. Some of it is also perception. The first cars that were likely to have in touch displays were luxury cars, and there you could show how advanced the car was by showing that there were no buttons anywhere. That said, I'm starting to see a move back towards buttons in high end cars again. Here's hoping that that filters down to lower end cars. Much as I prefer buying used cars, I'd still like to be able to buy a car newer than 2012 some day.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - thisrod 6y ago
    A jet cockpit is designed for flying through cloud. That is comparable to driving a car with all the windows painted over, which still has to stay on the road, make the right turns to reach its destination, and stay separated from other cars that also have their windows painted over. You would want to add some extra instruments to your car before trying that.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    > For example, professional video cameras that have physical buttons and dials for every function, versus consumer cameras that hide that 3 layers deep in a virtual menu. > Is it to try to not overwhelm the casual / amateur user? Pretty much yes, at least in photography. Most consumers are perfectly fine with the automated standard profile. Zoom, focus, click, done - and they rarely need any of the advanced functions like exposure adjust, manual aperture setting, or adjusting ISO sensitivity of the sensor, so it's fine to hide this in menus (or, more shamefully, not exposing it at all) for consumer equipment. The fact that most smartphones these days have good enough sensors and processing capabilities to fulfill that "click, done" snapshot scenario is coincidentally also what's driving the market downturn on actual cameras. On the other hand, professionals or serious hobbyists do need fast and easy access to all the options their cameras offer, so it makes sense to put them on actual physical buttons.
    - romwell 6y ago
      You'd think so, but even semi-pro cameras are falling prey to touchscreen mania. Case in point: the latest Fuji X100V, sold for $1399, removing dials and buttons and moving some functionality to touchscreen. The entire point of the camera is that it looks and feels like a film rangefinder. Now, the first iteration of the camera had a scroll wheel, which enabled one-handed operation and preview, and fast scrolling through photos in the hybrid viewfinder. You can use FujiX100 without ever turning the touchscreen on. You can use it in the dark. Most people will think it's a film camera. The new version requires you to swipe the touchscreen, which means that some functionality is missing unless you blast that LCD screen into the world. I can't even.
- guessbest 6y ago
  Your car is now built and labeled with an international audience in mind and is no longer USA centric.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    We are all equal now in that nobody knows what the buttons do. Seriously, how hard is it to learn what "OIL" means?
    - dieortin 6y ago
      Probably requires more effort than learning the meaning of some drawings if you don’t speak English. You might guess what a teardrop drawing means, but it’s impossible to know what OIL is.
    - WalterBright 6y ago
      (You can type OIL into google translate on your phone. Good luck typing in a picture.)
      - Gravityloss 6y ago
        You mean 油 ? Yeah, I'm slightly exaggerating but the general comment like "a meter is so much more natural than a foot" is a good opportunity to increase cultural self awareness. I assume in 10 years everybody has to install Chinese keyboards to their phones so they can translate what the hell is going on. Well, there's already software that interprets text from pictures, translates and embeds it back in.
martythemaniak 6y ago
Why do you need a button? I set the temperature in my car and it does whatever it needs to make it so.
- seph-reed 6y ago
  I don't want that at all. I like to have relative temperature much more. Makes the transitions between inside and outside a lot more bearable, and is cheaper.
- frosted-flakes 6y ago
  Air conditioning has more to do with controlling humidity than temperature. Besides, cars are highly-variable environments, and a thermostat setting is a poor indicator of a person's comfort. Maybe the sun is shining on me and I want cold, dry air blowing on me, even though the cabin temperature technically matches the seemingly-reasonable thermostat setting. Maybe a window is open, and blasting the AC is pointless. Maybe I'm driving past a stinky chicken farm and I want to turn on recirculate mode so I don't gag. I don't care about a specific temperature setting, all I care about is relative comfort. A little warmer or colder by tweaking the temperature dial, dryer with the AC button, maybe a nice 80/20 split between my face and my feet—manual controls can do that, and going from my older car to newer thermostatically-controlled ones is always a frustrating experience because there's a disconnect between the input method and the desired output that makes this more difficult. Ironically, these systems usually have too many buttons, and that's largely why they're hard to use. Just give me three dials (temp, fan speed, blender) and two buttons (AC, recirculate). Also, air conditioners are power-hungry and significantly affect fuel economy (and power output in ICE-driven cars). I don't turn it on unless I need it.

WalterBright 6y ago

Yet change it does. In my old car, the A/C is a button labeled "A/C". In new cars, I can't figure out how to turn it on. It's similar to each iteration of Windows. I'm convinced that Microsoft takes 1000 darts, labels each with a command like "backup", and has a blind monkey throw it at a dartboard to determine where it goes. At least Microsoft labels them with words, like "Control Panel", even though what's in it is completely random from one iteration to the next. The car companies label all the buttons with random splotches inspired by fingerpainting toddlers.

supernova87a 6y ago
cf. BMW's dumb iDrive system edit: and now that I think about it, I'm suddenly interested in understanding why consumer products seem averse to providing detailed/specific buttons compared to professional products? Is it to try to not overwhelm the casual / amateur user? (or conversely to be able to reach that user) For example, professional video cameras that have physical buttons and dials for every function, versus consumer cameras that hide that 3 layers deep in a virtual menu. Or, the cockpit of a jet (and all its displays and controls) versus a passenger car. Or how about a long-distance truck console -- is it similar? Maybe it's the issue of casual / lowest common demoninator users not being overwhelmed by such detail. Or that if you cannot filter your users to the ones who can or want to handle the detail, you have to design to the lowest bar. Which is a shame for those who want / like the detail.
- milesvp 6y ago
  I suspect a lot of it has to do with cost. Iterating hardware is expensive. On top of that tactile buttons are more expensive than you'd think, and Bill Of Materials can trump a lot of other decisions in hardware. Some of it is also perception. The first cars that were likely to have in touch displays were luxury cars, and there you could show how advanced the car was by showing that there were no buttons anywhere. That said, I'm starting to see a move back towards buttons in high end cars again. Here's hoping that that filters down to lower end cars. Much as I prefer buying used cars, I'd still like to be able to buy a car newer than 2012 some day.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- thisrod 6y ago
  A jet cockpit is designed for flying through cloud. That is comparable to driving a car with all the windows painted over, which still has to stay on the road, make the right turns to reach its destination, and stay separated from other cars that also have their windows painted over. You would want to add some extra instruments to your car before trying that.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  > For example, professional video cameras that have physical buttons and dials for every function, versus consumer cameras that hide that 3 layers deep in a virtual menu. > Is it to try to not overwhelm the casual / amateur user? Pretty much yes, at least in photography. Most consumers are perfectly fine with the automated standard profile. Zoom, focus, click, done - and they rarely need any of the advanced functions like exposure adjust, manual aperture setting, or adjusting ISO sensitivity of the sensor, so it's fine to hide this in menus (or, more shamefully, not exposing it at all) for consumer equipment. The fact that most smartphones these days have good enough sensors and processing capabilities to fulfill that "click, done" snapshot scenario is coincidentally also what's driving the market downturn on actual cameras. On the other hand, professionals or serious hobbyists do need fast and easy access to all the options their cameras offer, so it makes sense to put them on actual physical buttons.
  - romwell 6y ago
    You'd think so, but even semi-pro cameras are falling prey to touchscreen mania. Case in point: the latest Fuji X100V, sold for $1399, removing dials and buttons and moving some functionality to touchscreen. The entire point of the camera is that it looks and feels like a film rangefinder. Now, the first iteration of the camera had a scroll wheel, which enabled one-handed operation and preview, and fast scrolling through photos in the hybrid viewfinder. You can use FujiX100 without ever turning the touchscreen on. You can use it in the dark. Most people will think it's a film camera. The new version requires you to swipe the touchscreen, which means that some functionality is missing unless you blast that LCD screen into the world. I can't even.
guessbest 6y ago
Your car is now built and labeled with an international audience in mind and is no longer USA centric.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  We are all equal now in that nobody knows what the buttons do. Seriously, how hard is it to learn what "OIL" means?
  - dieortin 6y ago
    Probably requires more effort than learning the meaning of some drawings if you don’t speak English. You might guess what a teardrop drawing means, but it’s impossible to know what OIL is.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    (You can type OIL into google translate on your phone. Good luck typing in a picture.)
    - Gravityloss 6y ago
      You mean 油 ? Yeah, I'm slightly exaggerating but the general comment like "a meter is so much more natural than a foot" is a good opportunity to increase cultural self awareness. I assume in 10 years everybody has to install Chinese keyboards to their phones so they can translate what the hell is going on. Well, there's already software that interprets text from pictures, translates and embeds it back in.

martythemaniak 6y ago

Why do you need a button? I set the temperature in my car and it does whatever it needs to make it so.

seph-reed 6y ago
I don't want that at all. I like to have relative temperature much more. Makes the transitions between inside and outside a lot more bearable, and is cheaper.
frosted-flakes 6y ago
Air conditioning has more to do with controlling humidity than temperature. Besides, cars are highly-variable environments, and a thermostat setting is a poor indicator of a person's comfort. Maybe the sun is shining on me and I want cold, dry air blowing on me, even though the cabin temperature technically matches the seemingly-reasonable thermostat setting. Maybe a window is open, and blasting the AC is pointless. Maybe I'm driving past a stinky chicken farm and I want to turn on recirculate mode so I don't gag. I don't care about a specific temperature setting, all I care about is relative comfort. A little warmer or colder by tweaking the temperature dial, dryer with the AC button, maybe a nice 80/20 split between my face and my feet—manual controls can do that, and going from my older car to newer thermostatically-controlled ones is always a frustrating experience because there's a disconnect between the input method and the desired output that makes this more difficult. Ironically, these systems usually have too many buttons, and that's largely why they're hard to use. Just give me three dials (temp, fan speed, blender) and two buttons (AC, recirculate). Also, air conditioners are power-hungry and significantly affect fuel economy (and power output in ICE-driven cars). I don't turn it on unless I need it.