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Shopping your resume around will be the new promotion (similar to pre-covid career growth). If turnover rates start to match the fast food industry, only the b

Shopping your resume around will be the new promotion (similar to pre-covid career growth). If turnover rates start to match the fast food industry, only the best companies will thrive.

brtkdotse 6y ago
No kidding. Unless you’re in a “tech for tech’s sake” kind of job, you need to get up to speed on the problem domain and the business. That usually takes _at least_ 18 months and if people bounce just as they’re getting proficient you’re throwing money into a black hole.
- vonmoltke 6y ago
  Alternately, the software industry could go the way of the electrical and mechanical engineering industries and just not hire people unless they already possess relevant domain knowledge. It was a bit of a shock to me when I transitioned from EE that I could get hired in this industry with little to no domain knowledge on what I was being hired to do.
  - __s 6y ago
    Learning is a prerequisite, jobs pivot, things change Maybe in another hundred years things'll settle down
  - exdsq 6y ago
    I do wonder if this will happen. I reckon there will be some sort of catastrophic programming error which brings in a level of certification akin to other engineering disciplines. I've seen jobs advertised nearby for a nuclear defence company that have the same requirements as a web dev agency.
    - heavenlyblue 6y ago
      The only question is whether you will be hired on those requirements alone.
    - tpmx 6y ago
      You mean like a company on this list? https://www.dontbankonthebomb.com/nuclear-weapon-producers/ https://www.dontbankonthebomb.com/nuclear-weapon-producers/ (It seems to be an activist site, but it's what shows up when you search for producers of of nuclear weapons.) Most of these companies are huge. They may be looking for someone to maintain their canteens' web site. Or something else not very exciting.
    - ununoctium87 6y ago
      So, kind of like a software bug that causes 1 or 2 planes to crash, killing all on-board?
      - philjohn 6y ago
        Or killed a bunch of people undergoing radiotherapy, or exploded an Arianne rocket, or required years of remiedial work before 1st of Jan 2000 ... the list goes on and on.
      - exdsq 6y ago
        I was thinking something more extreme, although I wonder if that software bug had caused a plane or two to crash into a US city would there have been more of a response.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  > you need to get up to speed on the problem domain and the business. That usually takes _at least_ 18 months I have always wondered about this as businesses do not seem to care. Everyone knows devs are getting large raises to move but what business is working to counteract the problem? Not many. Domain knowledge seems to not have much value as far as the people signing your paychecks are concerned.
  - mns 6y ago
    This also depends on the company and in the same time it depends on the people applying for the job. I wouldn't feel any motivation if I would just go to company X because of their great technology, but the business is something that says nothing to me, and same goes the other way. That's until somebody pays you more than enough to drop the idealism. :)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ianleeclark 6y ago
> Shopping your resume around will be the new promotion (similar to pre-covid career growth). I graduated in 2015 and at that point it was well established this is how you move up. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the overwhelming sentiment for most people in my generation.
- peanut_is_yum 6y ago
  Agreed. Most people I know say that you're supposed to job hop frequently.
karatestomp 6y ago
Yep. Promotion? WTF. No, you weasel your way into duties "above" your pay grade then go get the job you've been doing, with accompanying title and pay, someplace else. Or you can wait around for an opening in your company and hope the right people know your name so you get it. If you prefer gambling. But jumping ship works better. [EDIT] OK in case anyone uses this as a playbook, be aware you may need an intermediate step at some company desperate for [your new role] with below-average pay so you can have The Actual Title for a while before moving to a place with normal pay, but the good news is below-average for your next step is probably at or above what you're already making anyway, so NBD. Just be sure their pay's below average because they're a funded-but-not-crazy-funded startup and not because they're terrible, though. For whatever reason low pay also seems to go with shitty working conditions and overwork. Go figure. And make sure they're likely to stay in business minimum a year, with two being better.
triyambakam 6y ago
As a small point of data against this, I've been promoted twice at my current company. Starting salary was 100k, promoted to level C engineer at 110k, now level B engineer at 125k.
buzzkillington 6y ago
I have never been promoted at a job and my longest tenure was 3 years right out of university. I've gotten a 10%-50% increase in every job I've taken when I've jumped ship. Staying in the same job for longer than it takes you to learn how to do it is career suicide.

Shopping your resume around will be the new promotion (similar to pre-covid career growth). If turnover rates start to match the fast food industry, only the best companies will thrive.

brtkdotse 6y ago

No kidding. Unless you’re in a “tech for tech’s sake” kind of job, you need to get up to speed on the problem domain and the business. That usually takes _at least_ 18 months and if people bounce just as they’re getting proficient you’re throwing money into a black hole.

vonmoltke 6y ago
Alternately, the software industry could go the way of the electrical and mechanical engineering industries and just not hire people unless they already possess relevant domain knowledge. It was a bit of a shock to me when I transitioned from EE that I could get hired in this industry with little to no domain knowledge on what I was being hired to do.
- __s 6y ago
  Learning is a prerequisite, jobs pivot, things change Maybe in another hundred years things'll settle down
- exdsq 6y ago
  I do wonder if this will happen. I reckon there will be some sort of catastrophic programming error which brings in a level of certification akin to other engineering disciplines. I've seen jobs advertised nearby for a nuclear defence company that have the same requirements as a web dev agency.
  - heavenlyblue 6y ago
    The only question is whether you will be hired on those requirements alone.
  - tpmx 6y ago
    You mean like a company on this list? https://www.dontbankonthebomb.com/nuclear-weapon-producers/ https://www.dontbankonthebomb.com/nuclear-weapon-producers/ (It seems to be an activist site, but it's what shows up when you search for producers of of nuclear weapons.) Most of these companies are huge. They may be looking for someone to maintain their canteens' web site. Or something else not very exciting.
  - ununoctium87 6y ago
    So, kind of like a software bug that causes 1 or 2 planes to crash, killing all on-board?
    - philjohn 6y ago
      Or killed a bunch of people undergoing radiotherapy, or exploded an Arianne rocket, or required years of remiedial work before 1st of Jan 2000 ... the list goes on and on.
    - exdsq 6y ago
      I was thinking something more extreme, although I wonder if that software bug had caused a plane or two to crash into a US city would there have been more of a response.
MattGaiser 6y ago
> you need to get up to speed on the problem domain and the business. That usually takes _at least_ 18 months I have always wondered about this as businesses do not seem to care. Everyone knows devs are getting large raises to move but what business is working to counteract the problem? Not many. Domain knowledge seems to not have much value as far as the people signing your paychecks are concerned.
- mns 6y ago
  This also depends on the company and in the same time it depends on the people applying for the job. I wouldn't feel any motivation if I would just go to company X because of their great technology, but the business is something that says nothing to me, and same goes the other way. That's until somebody pays you more than enough to drop the idealism. :)

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ianleeclark 6y ago

> Shopping your resume around will be the new promotion (similar to pre-covid career growth). I graduated in 2015 and at that point it was well established this is how you move up. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the overwhelming sentiment for most people in my generation.

peanut_is_yum 6y ago
Agreed. Most people I know say that you're supposed to job hop frequently.

karatestomp 6y ago

Yep. Promotion? WTF. No, you weasel your way into duties "above" your pay grade then go get the job you've been doing, with accompanying title and pay, someplace else. Or you can wait around for an opening in your company and hope the right people know your name so you get it. If you prefer gambling. But jumping ship works better. [EDIT] OK in case anyone uses this as a playbook, be aware you may need an intermediate step at some company desperate for [your new role] with below-average pay so you can have The Actual Title for a while before moving to a place with normal pay, but the good news is below-average for your next step is probably at or above what you're already making anyway, so NBD. Just be sure their pay's below average because they're a funded-but-not-crazy-funded startup and not because they're terrible, though. For whatever reason low pay also seems to go with shitty working conditions and overwork. Go figure. And make sure they're likely to stay in business minimum a year, with two being better.

triyambakam 6y ago

As a small point of data against this, I've been promoted twice at my current company. Starting salary was 100k, promoted to level C engineer at 110k, now level B engineer at 125k.

buzzkillington 6y ago

I have never been promoted at a job and my longest tenure was 3 years right out of university. I've gotten a 10%-50% increase in every job I've taken when I've jumped ship. Staying in the same job for longer than it takes you to learn how to do it is career suicide.