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I've worked for Swiss companies from the west coast of North America (9 hours difference). It's not perfect, but I started early and they kept an eye on slack u

by eloff 6y ago

I've worked for Swiss companies from the west coast of North America (9 hours difference). It's not perfect, but I started early and they kept an eye on slack until late. Most of the time we communicated in the couple hours of overlap we had. It works because as a developer it's a plus to have multiple hours of good focus time with no meetings or interruptions. Plus we can cover each other for pager duty so nobody has to normally wake in the middle of the night. I think remote work greatly increases the circle of people you're competing with. I don't recommend trying to be remote only unless you're world class - because the world is technically your competition. That said there are lots of reasons most people in Vietnam or India are not actually in competition with me. Being able to communicate fluently in English and divine requirements from non technical people who don't know what they want is still the most important part of the job. You can be the best programmer in the world, but if you can't do that, you'll just build the wrong things beautifully and ahead of time. Then there is the trust issue. People need to know they can trust you with their code, customers, and business. That's a challenge if they've never met you in person. It's a bigger challenge if you live in the developing world - maybe that shouldn't be true, but it is. I had more trouble getting jobs when I lived in Panama.

gregkerzhner 6y ago
Ive been on projects like this as well (the other way though - working from Spain for clients in San Francisco). You can definetly make it work, but its far from ideal. As you go through your day, questions inevitably pop up outside of the overlap hours. If you have to wait until the next day to get answers, you either have to pause what you are doing and switch to something else, or continue under assumptions that might be proven wrong the next day. Coming back to the states and being able to collaborate real time throughout the day was always a boost to productivity. In my digital nomad days, the golden place for a client was always New York. This is because it would allow me to have solid overlap from anywhere in the states, and also good enough overlap in Europe.
- eloff 6y ago
  Yeah, I'm used to having to switch gears into another task. I'm also used to getting very creative with finding a way forward when that's not possible (the site is down and I don't know what to do about it, and the only people who know are unreachable.) I had a job for a while that I hated where I never knew what my task was. It would seem clear when given to me, but then I would start and questions would come up and there was nobody to clarify. So I'd have to go back to first principles and try to divine what they wanted me to do, and then execute on that. I was over the moon when I got a better gig and was able to leave that one.
clarry 6y ago
> I think remote work greatly increases the circle of people you're competing with. I don't recommend trying to be remote only unless you're world class - because the world is technically your competition. Another perspective, from a remote-only employee away from all the world's tech hubs: there just aren't that many local jobs to choose from. Remote work really makes it possible for me to have a job in this field where every other company is complaining about shortage of talent.. and I don't have to leave home & everything behind and move into a big city (I don't like cities btw). I don't think I'm world class.
- eloff 6y ago
  I've only worked remote, initially for the same reason. But I think you're better than you assume, because you got the job out of a very large pool of potential candidates. By definition, you must've beat everyone who applied in that hiring round. Which reminds me of the first rule of finding a job - it's just like dating - is a numbers game. Your chance of success on any attempt might be low, but then you just need to make enough attempts and the limit of P(offer) approaches 1.
  - mnm1 6y ago
    Even remote companies can only consider so many applicants. In our last three job searches that number started at 100 or so, was whittled down using resumes to 40 or so who were whittled down to a dozen or so by tech screens and finally we interviewed less than ten. One hour interview followed by a take home for the top three. We chose one of the three. No stupid whiteboard. No long ass interviews. The take home was an hour or two at most and the people doing it knew they were finalists. We're a small company. A bigger company will have a bigger pool. The irony is, they won't get better candidates and if they have a shit hiring process, they'll get much worse. Other than problems with a couple of people's background which would have been immediately flagged had we done a proper check, our hires have been great developers.
    - jlokier 6y ago
      > problems with a couple of people's background What kind of problems with people's backgrounds did you find relevant to doing a developer job?
blaser-waffle 6y ago
Trust, overlap of working hours, language, and culture are huge -- and often insurmountable. Having dealt with Tata, Cap Gemini, Genpack, CTS, HCL, and a handful of smaller groups in the Philippines, I'd avoid offshore workers if at all possible. Would absolutely hire qualified Indians and Filipinos in the US, but outsourcing is dicey.

by eloff 6y ago

gregkerzhner 6y ago

Ive been on projects like this as well (the other way though - working from Spain for clients in San Francisco). You can definetly make it work, but its far from ideal. As you go through your day, questions inevitably pop up outside of the overlap hours. If you have to wait until the next day to get answers, you either have to pause what you are doing and switch to something else, or continue under assumptions that might be proven wrong the next day. Coming back to the states and being able to collaborate real time throughout the day was always a boost to productivity. In my digital nomad days, the golden place for a client was always New York. This is because it would allow me to have solid overlap from anywhere in the states, and also good enough overlap in Europe.

eloff 6y ago
Yeah, I'm used to having to switch gears into another task. I'm also used to getting very creative with finding a way forward when that's not possible (the site is down and I don't know what to do about it, and the only people who know are unreachable.) I had a job for a while that I hated where I never knew what my task was. It would seem clear when given to me, but then I would start and questions would come up and there was nobody to clarify. So I'd have to go back to first principles and try to divine what they wanted me to do, and then execute on that. I was over the moon when I got a better gig and was able to leave that one.

clarry 6y ago

> I think remote work greatly increases the circle of people you're competing with. I don't recommend trying to be remote only unless you're world class - because the world is technically your competition. Another perspective, from a remote-only employee away from all the world's tech hubs: there just aren't that many local jobs to choose from. Remote work really makes it possible for me to have a job in this field where every other company is complaining about shortage of talent.. and I don't have to leave home & everything behind and move into a big city (I don't like cities btw). I don't think I'm world class.

eloff 6y ago
I've only worked remote, initially for the same reason. But I think you're better than you assume, because you got the job out of a very large pool of potential candidates. By definition, you must've beat everyone who applied in that hiring round. Which reminds me of the first rule of finding a job - it's just like dating - is a numbers game. Your chance of success on any attempt might be low, but then you just need to make enough attempts and the limit of P(offer) approaches 1.
- mnm1 6y ago
  Even remote companies can only consider so many applicants. In our last three job searches that number started at 100 or so, was whittled down using resumes to 40 or so who were whittled down to a dozen or so by tech screens and finally we interviewed less than ten. One hour interview followed by a take home for the top three. We chose one of the three. No stupid whiteboard. No long ass interviews. The take home was an hour or two at most and the people doing it knew they were finalists. We're a small company. A bigger company will have a bigger pool. The irony is, they won't get better candidates and if they have a shit hiring process, they'll get much worse. Other than problems with a couple of people's background which would have been immediately flagged had we done a proper check, our hires have been great developers.
  - jlokier 6y ago
    > problems with a couple of people's background What kind of problems with people's backgrounds did you find relevant to doing a developer job?

blaser-waffle 6y ago

Trust, overlap of working hours, language, and culture are huge -- and often insurmountable. Having dealt with Tata, Cap Gemini, Genpack, CTS, HCL, and a handful of smaller groups in the Philippines, I'd avoid offshore workers if at all possible. Would absolutely hire qualified Indians and Filipinos in the US, but outsourcing is dicey.