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I wonder if some have a genetic predisposition to bad reactions to psychedelics. My best friend had an LSD reaction similar to yours (increasingly intense hallu

by shlant 6y ago

I wonder if some have a genetic predisposition to bad reactions to psychedelics. My best friend had an LSD reaction similar to yours (increasingly intense hallucinations until falling on the ground and starting to seize). His brother had a bad experience with psilocybin and jumped out a window. I believe a second brother also had a bad experience. Makes me even more concerned when people talk about psychedelics as a low risk self-treatment for various illnesses. I myself have had a bad trip which resulted in years of anxiety and panic attacks (although after having done psychedelics many times before).

joeberon 6y ago
Yeah I think that the psychological harm, much like some other drugs, can be underrated. Another example of a drug people see as harmless is cannabis, which can reliably give people (including myself) intense anxiety and panic attacks. It is conjecture on my part but I can't think that it is healthy for your mind to subject yourself to intense feelings of anxiety. These days I steer clear of all drugs except for my SSRIs and alcohol, the latter being basically the only recreational drug I've taken that seems to not put me at some level of psychological turbulence.
- saiya-jin 6y ago
  Powerful psychoactive substances shouldn't be taken by people who are not mentally 'balanced', meaning just fine, happy with themselves or similar. I know its easy to say in hindsight, many of us tried those things when we didn't think about it, and it worked better for some and less for others. I think the old set & setting has some proper meaning here and can vastly bootstrap the incoming experience. Having a calm, even soothing environment, no negative outside influences like badly tripping / drug rejecting friends who can drag anybody down to mud. If one is really unsure, have some friend 'spotting' for you and drag you back and calm down if bad trip comes. If one is in bad mental place, just don't do it, it ain't alcohol which can be taken almost on any mood. Personally, I've never had a profound trip unless alone, relaxing on the bed with nice music in the background, but that worked for my specific personality.
  - Trasmatta 6y ago
    > Powerful psychoactive substances shouldn't be taken by people who are not mentally 'balanced', meaning just fine, happy with themselves or similar. Agreed, but part of the problem is that they're often framed by their proponents as a miracle drug that can cure you of depression, anxiety, and fear of death. So people with those problems will often self medicate with them. And for some people, it totally works. But it can backfire tremendously, and actually worsen those problems. There's a psychonaut meme that there's "no such thing as a bad trip, just a difficult one", but that's absolutely untrue. I think psychedelics have incredible therapeutic potential, though, and I'm looking forward to a world where they are legal, well tested and researched, and usable in safe environments with trained and compassionate professionals.
    - anonzzzz 6y ago
      I would say you shouldn't have your first trip unless your mental health is stable, or it is in a therapeutic context. Once you have some sense of what to expect you can more readily use your judgment as to whether you're in the right headspace. I find it can be quite helpful to mitigate mild/moderate anxiety or depression.
  - joncrane 6y ago
    It's a paradox, isn't it? What person in their right mind, who's perfectly balanced and stable, would willingly ingest powerful reality-altering substances?
  - shlant 6y ago
    "Powerful psychoactive substances shouldn't be taken by people who are not mentally 'balanced', meaning just fine, happy with themselves or similar." But therein lies the crux of this kind of reasoning: those kinds of requirements are vague and highly subjective - what does "mentally balanced" entail? who determines that? It would require a high level of self-awareness and even then, some woundings/mental illnesses may not be apparent until some sort of traumatic event (such as a bad trip). It's incredibly difficult to know ahead of time what kind of reaction someone is going to have to such powerful mind-altering substances and IMO although the advice of "set and setting" is important, it in no way will prevent all possible issues from happening.
elbear 6y ago
I believe it's more about your psychology at the time but also your past trauma that determines how you react to it. Experience with meditation should help with any weird moments too.
- shlant 6y ago
  I hear what you are saying, but I'm not just talking about generalized "bad trips" similar to my own - I'm referring to people who's physical bodies have extreme reactions (such as seizures) that seem to be outside the norm (although probably not as rare as most think).
luckydata 6y ago
the "jumped out of a window" part seems suspect. It's a common anti-LSD propaganda trope but as far as I know it happened only once provably. It's so strange that your best friend would have been the second case of that. IMHO psychedelics get a bad rap because they are used by people that haven't done even the bare minimum reading and preparation to have an optimal experience. It's not difficult to do, and once you are in the right place, with the right environment and mindset, it's very easy to use the altered mental state to do productive work on your own psyche. A hammer is a useful tool as long as you don't hit yourself in the forehead with it.
- shlant 6y ago
  sounds like you have a bit of a pro psychedelic bias here and are minimizing people's experiences. This isn't just some story I heard, this is a person that I know and who I witnessed struggle to heal from literal broken bones over years. "as far as I know it happened only once provably" = "I haven't heard of it, so it must not exist or be a lie". Pretty unproductive perspective to have... I find your kind of flippant "well they just didn't do it right" approach a very common defense of various forms of dogma. Maybe you should consider that mind-altering substances can have consequences for even those who approach them in the most responsible way possible.

by shlant 6y ago

joeberon 6y ago

Yeah I think that the psychological harm, much like some other drugs, can be underrated. Another example of a drug people see as harmless is cannabis, which can reliably give people (including myself) intense anxiety and panic attacks. It is conjecture on my part but I can't think that it is healthy for your mind to subject yourself to intense feelings of anxiety. These days I steer clear of all drugs except for my SSRIs and alcohol, the latter being basically the only recreational drug I've taken that seems to not put me at some level of psychological turbulence.

saiya-jin 6y ago
Powerful psychoactive substances shouldn't be taken by people who are not mentally 'balanced', meaning just fine, happy with themselves or similar. I know its easy to say in hindsight, many of us tried those things when we didn't think about it, and it worked better for some and less for others. I think the old set & setting has some proper meaning here and can vastly bootstrap the incoming experience. Having a calm, even soothing environment, no negative outside influences like badly tripping / drug rejecting friends who can drag anybody down to mud. If one is really unsure, have some friend 'spotting' for you and drag you back and calm down if bad trip comes. If one is in bad mental place, just don't do it, it ain't alcohol which can be taken almost on any mood. Personally, I've never had a profound trip unless alone, relaxing on the bed with nice music in the background, but that worked for my specific personality.
- Trasmatta 6y ago
  > Powerful psychoactive substances shouldn't be taken by people who are not mentally 'balanced', meaning just fine, happy with themselves or similar. Agreed, but part of the problem is that they're often framed by their proponents as a miracle drug that can cure you of depression, anxiety, and fear of death. So people with those problems will often self medicate with them. And for some people, it totally works. But it can backfire tremendously, and actually worsen those problems. There's a psychonaut meme that there's "no such thing as a bad trip, just a difficult one", but that's absolutely untrue. I think psychedelics have incredible therapeutic potential, though, and I'm looking forward to a world where they are legal, well tested and researched, and usable in safe environments with trained and compassionate professionals.
  - anonzzzz 6y ago
    I would say you shouldn't have your first trip unless your mental health is stable, or it is in a therapeutic context. Once you have some sense of what to expect you can more readily use your judgment as to whether you're in the right headspace. I find it can be quite helpful to mitigate mild/moderate anxiety or depression.
- joncrane 6y ago
  It's a paradox, isn't it? What person in their right mind, who's perfectly balanced and stable, would willingly ingest powerful reality-altering substances?
- shlant 6y ago
  "Powerful psychoactive substances shouldn't be taken by people who are not mentally 'balanced', meaning just fine, happy with themselves or similar." But therein lies the crux of this kind of reasoning: those kinds of requirements are vague and highly subjective - what does "mentally balanced" entail? who determines that? It would require a high level of self-awareness and even then, some woundings/mental illnesses may not be apparent until some sort of traumatic event (such as a bad trip). It's incredibly difficult to know ahead of time what kind of reaction someone is going to have to such powerful mind-altering substances and IMO although the advice of "set and setting" is important, it in no way will prevent all possible issues from happening.

elbear 6y ago

I believe it's more about your psychology at the time but also your past trauma that determines how you react to it. Experience with meditation should help with any weird moments too.

shlant 6y ago
I hear what you are saying, but I'm not just talking about generalized "bad trips" similar to my own - I'm referring to people who's physical bodies have extreme reactions (such as seizures) that seem to be outside the norm (although probably not as rare as most think).

luckydata 6y ago

the "jumped out of a window" part seems suspect. It's a common anti-LSD propaganda trope but as far as I know it happened only once provably. It's so strange that your best friend would have been the second case of that. IMHO psychedelics get a bad rap because they are used by people that haven't done even the bare minimum reading and preparation to have an optimal experience. It's not difficult to do, and once you are in the right place, with the right environment and mindset, it's very easy to use the altered mental state to do productive work on your own psyche. A hammer is a useful tool as long as you don't hit yourself in the forehead with it.

shlant 6y ago
sounds like you have a bit of a pro psychedelic bias here and are minimizing people's experiences. This isn't just some story I heard, this is a person that I know and who I witnessed struggle to heal from literal broken bones over years. "as far as I know it happened only once provably" = "I haven't heard of it, so it must not exist or be a lie". Pretty unproductive perspective to have... I find your kind of flippant "well they just didn't do it right" approach a very common defense of various forms of dogma. Maybe you should consider that mind-altering substances can have consequences for even those who approach them in the most responsible way possible.