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Things I want to do this year to help reclaim the web: 1. Run my own personal web server. Starting on a cloud provider, but eventually from my flat. 2. Write

Things I want to do this year to help reclaim the web: 1. Run my own personal web server. Starting on a cloud provider, but eventually from my flat. 2. Write my own blog on my own web server. Not using a platform. Not tracking users. 3. Push my side-project code to an open Gitlab repo Way down on this list is "stop commenting on HN", so if you never hear from me again, be glad ;)

MaxBarraclough 6y ago
You might be interested in the IndieWeb folks' thoughts: https://indieweb.org/POSSE https://indieweb.org/POSSE > Way down on this list is "stop commenting on HN", I don't see how HN is what's wrong with the web. It's a very well managed online community.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  > I don't see how HN is what's wrong with the web I think he's saying it's a distraction. I agree.
  - marcus_holmes 6y ago
    this. Also I invest way too much emotional involvement in HN commenting. I find it difficult to maintain emotional detachment and not get angry/happy/annoyed/worried/whatever about how many upvotes my comments get. On my list of "important things I need to have on my mind" whether my latest HN comment got upvoted is waaaaaaaay down there (possibly not enough emphasis there on how little this truly matters to my life). And yet it takes up a lot more mental space than that (evidence: this comment). I don't seem to be able to not give a shit about it, so I'm probably better off not doing it at all.
    - tsegratis 6y ago
      ... well, upvoted ;) But consider this a big fat upvote for your life in general, and not related to HN
- kabacha 6y ago
  I disagree with your HN comment. HN is pretty well known to be astroturf forum in fact that's the reason lobster.rs and other alternatives have been founded.
  - daef 6y ago
    I think you're looking for https://lobste.rs/ https://lobste.rs/
  - readarticle 6y ago
    From all publicly available evidence, Lobste.rs founding had absolutely nothing to do with HN being an “astroturf forum” in 2012, rather the opposite. Strong moderation lacking in communication seems to have been the primary driver, with the creator being shadow banned and ghosted by the HN mods which basically meant Paul Graham at the time. https://jcs.org/notaweblog/2012/06/13/hellbanned_from_hacker_news/ https://jcs.org/notaweblog/2012/06/13/hellbanned_from_hacker... https://lobste.rs/about https://lobste.rs/about
    - kabacha 6y ago
      > Lobste.rs founding had absolutely nothing to do with HN being an “astroturf forum” It absolutely had everything to do with it. That's the reason lobste.rs is invite only forum. They had a rather big drama there recently as astroturfer still snuck in even through invite only system resulting in increasing of account restrictions on posting etc. Personally I think their limits are a bit too strict though when you browse hacker news almost every day you can see how that's necessary.
      - readarticle 6y ago
        Is that also the reason they launched with a public mod log, tags, and downvote explanations? The presence of a trivially bypassed invite tree completely invalidates the public, historical reasoning behind the founding from the founder themself in 2012? Feel free to open those links I posted before replying.
  - 6y ago
- marcus_holmes 6y ago
  thanks for the indieweb link, that's useful :)
- alexbanks 6y ago
  > I don't see how HN is what's wrong with the web. It's a very well managed online community. I would say that, while what you're saying is true, it's also a very intense echo chamber. VCs, startup-culture and lots of the work generated by YCombinator has contributed to the hostility of the web in the first place.
  - rapnie 6y ago
    But doesn't this also mean that if enough people start echoing the right sound, like here in this thread and many others, it will start to reverberate in these VC's and startups' ears who then hopefully take these considerations to heart?
    - alexbanks 6y ago
      Sure, but it's a huge stretch to think that a VC-oriented echo chamber would start thinking the right things. The motives of the people that own and operate this forum are not necessarily aligned with the goals we're describing here, by definition.
- lhorie 6y ago
  Remember when everyone used to praise Google (deservedly) about its "do no evil" motto? The problem w/ sites like HN is not inherently about the quality of community or the content, but that aggregation is philosophically antithetical to the openness of the web. The charm of the web of old is that you could own your space and if you wanted your pages to have animated gifs of rainbows and unicorns, you could. Likewise if people wanted to customize their view of the web, they could via things like RSS. Contrast to nowadays, where we collectively consider experiments about omitting noise from HN API via AI something that is "cool". The very aggregating nature of HN that brought people together in the first place can also be a limitation against branching out onto your own directions/subcultures (e.g. the comments about echo chambers).
mrmonkeyman 6y ago
"Running" a "server" is exceedingly simple (at first). Grab some old desktop/laptop, turn it on, open a port. Just do that. Skip the bullshit "cloud providers".

MaxBarraclough 6y ago

You might be interested in the IndieWeb folks' thoughts: https://indieweb.org/POSSE https://indieweb.org/POSSE > Way down on this list is "stop commenting on HN", I don't see how HN is what's wrong with the web. It's a very well managed online community.

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
> I don't see how HN is what's wrong with the web I think he's saying it's a distraction. I agree.
- marcus_holmes 6y ago
  this. Also I invest way too much emotional involvement in HN commenting. I find it difficult to maintain emotional detachment and not get angry/happy/annoyed/worried/whatever about how many upvotes my comments get. On my list of "important things I need to have on my mind" whether my latest HN comment got upvoted is waaaaaaaay down there (possibly not enough emphasis there on how little this truly matters to my life). And yet it takes up a lot more mental space than that (evidence: this comment). I don't seem to be able to not give a shit about it, so I'm probably better off not doing it at all.
  - tsegratis 6y ago
    ... well, upvoted ;) But consider this a big fat upvote for your life in general, and not related to HN
kabacha 6y ago
I disagree with your HN comment. HN is pretty well known to be astroturf forum in fact that's the reason lobster.rs and other alternatives have been founded.
- daef 6y ago
  I think you're looking for https://lobste.rs/ https://lobste.rs/
- readarticle 6y ago
  From all publicly available evidence, Lobste.rs founding had absolutely nothing to do with HN being an “astroturf forum” in 2012, rather the opposite. Strong moderation lacking in communication seems to have been the primary driver, with the creator being shadow banned and ghosted by the HN mods which basically meant Paul Graham at the time. https://jcs.org/notaweblog/2012/06/13/hellbanned_from_hacker_news/ https://jcs.org/notaweblog/2012/06/13/hellbanned_from_hacker... https://lobste.rs/about https://lobste.rs/about
  - kabacha 6y ago
    > Lobste.rs founding had absolutely nothing to do with HN being an “astroturf forum” It absolutely had everything to do with it. That's the reason lobste.rs is invite only forum. They had a rather big drama there recently as astroturfer still snuck in even through invite only system resulting in increasing of account restrictions on posting etc. Personally I think their limits are a bit too strict though when you browse hacker news almost every day you can see how that's necessary.
    - readarticle 6y ago
      Is that also the reason they launched with a public mod log, tags, and downvote explanations? The presence of a trivially bypassed invite tree completely invalidates the public, historical reasoning behind the founding from the founder themself in 2012? Feel free to open those links I posted before replying.
- 6y ago
marcus_holmes 6y ago
thanks for the indieweb link, that's useful :)
alexbanks 6y ago
> I don't see how HN is what's wrong with the web. It's a very well managed online community. I would say that, while what you're saying is true, it's also a very intense echo chamber. VCs, startup-culture and lots of the work generated by YCombinator has contributed to the hostility of the web in the first place.
- rapnie 6y ago
  But doesn't this also mean that if enough people start echoing the right sound, like here in this thread and many others, it will start to reverberate in these VC's and startups' ears who then hopefully take these considerations to heart?
  - alexbanks 6y ago
    Sure, but it's a huge stretch to think that a VC-oriented echo chamber would start thinking the right things. The motives of the people that own and operate this forum are not necessarily aligned with the goals we're describing here, by definition.
lhorie 6y ago
Remember when everyone used to praise Google (deservedly) about its "do no evil" motto? The problem w/ sites like HN is not inherently about the quality of community or the content, but that aggregation is philosophically antithetical to the openness of the web. The charm of the web of old is that you could own your space and if you wanted your pages to have animated gifs of rainbows and unicorns, you could. Likewise if people wanted to customize their view of the web, they could via things like RSS. Contrast to nowadays, where we collectively consider experiments about omitting noise from HN API via AI something that is "cool". The very aggregating nature of HN that brought people together in the first place can also be a limitation against branching out onto your own directions/subcultures (e.g. the comments about echo chambers).

mrmonkeyman 6y ago

"Running" a "server" is exceedingly simple (at first). Grab some old desktop/laptop, turn it on, open a port. Just do that. Skip the bullshit "cloud providers".