7 ms·

Agreed, but what are you personally going to do, very specifically, to fight back?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
zdkl 6y ago
Understand the user needs that are being fulfilled by the walled gardens, Build and sell simple, useful and if not open then transparent services or products in order to foster variety in the face of anticompetitive or monopolistic entities, Help resellers/repackagers/... to configure, integrate or adapt such services even if not my own. Y'know, "do one thing and do it well"-style.
saagarjha 6y ago
Personally, I run a website which I use to push my ideals of what the web should look like. I try to educate people on why I think that way and what I think is wrong what they might be doing. If you’re really devoted, you could try contributing to a browser engine to help reign (typo: rein) in the web.
- tigerlily 6y ago
  There's already a browser engine that reigns in the web. What we need is a browser engine to help rein in the web.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Oops, thanks for catching that! Let me fix it.
  - marcus_holmes 6y ago
    took me reading that twice to get what you did there hehe
marcus_holmes 6y ago
Things I want to do this year to help reclaim the web: 1. Run my own personal web server. Starting on a cloud provider, but eventually from my flat. 2. Write my own blog on my own web server. Not using a platform. Not tracking users. 3. Push my side-project code to an open Gitlab repo Way down on this list is "stop commenting on HN", so if you never hear from me again, be glad ;)
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  You might be interested in the IndieWeb folks' thoughts: https://indieweb.org/POSSE https://indieweb.org/POSSE > Way down on this list is "stop commenting on HN", I don't see how HN is what's wrong with the web. It's a very well managed online community.
  - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
    > I don't see how HN is what's wrong with the web I think he's saying it's a distraction. I agree.
    - marcus_holmes 6y ago
      this. Also I invest way too much emotional involvement in HN commenting. I find it difficult to maintain emotional detachment and not get angry/happy/annoyed/worried/whatever about how many upvotes my comments get. On my list of "important things I need to have on my mind" whether my latest HN comment got upvoted is waaaaaaaay down there (possibly not enough emphasis there on how little this truly matters to my life). And yet it takes up a lot more mental space than that (evidence: this comment). I don't seem to be able to not give a shit about it, so I'm probably better off not doing it at all.
      - tsegratis 6y ago
        ... well, upvoted ;) But consider this a big fat upvote for your life in general, and not related to HN
  - 6y ago
benjaminjosephw 6y ago
I'm currently working on a project which I hope to launch later this year that gives users the ability to run, view and modify software using visual tools. There are too many meaningful problems technology could be solving and too few programmers interested in solving those problems. Giving more people the tools to build their own solutions or adapt others is something that could really change the game. There are a few companies exploring this space but we're looking to create open tools that don't enforce a vendor lock-in and tools that defend user freedoms. Viva la revolución!
ianopolous 6y ago
Some friends and I are trying to built a new private web where tracking is impossible without user permission and users own their data: https://book.peergos.org https://book.peergos.org
throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
Replying to @all What I was getting at was dead simpl,e: turn off JS and install a hostfile-based blocklist, or other. It really was that simple. I also enable cookies just for HN posting. Else no cookies of any kind ever accepted. So are people doing that, because if you don't co-operate with their code, tracking you gets vastly harder. You can take back control of you machine - if you choose. It's simple and you can do it now - if you choose. @benjaminjosephw: can you give more detail? (glad you're not just all talk!) @marcus_holmes, @zdkl, @saagarjha: you may need to get together with others to unify the idea of doing your own web servers. A collective not a commercial entity which you are trying to avoid being involved in. That gives you together much more power. I think that's what @MaxBarraclough is suggesting looking at . I will to. @saagarjha: writing your own browser engine seems totally pointless - it's the web at fault, not the browser that renders it. If you don't like bits of the browser, remove the code. Don't understand what you're trying to do.
- ttty 6y ago
  What do you do when you need a website but it doesn't work without Js? It's a huge pain to make phone calls, or go to the store
  - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
    I use a VM for the few cases I really need to interact with a JS-ridden site, which reverts to a clean state when closed. This should be doable by most HN'ers, we're supposed to be technically savvy. But another way when you need not have to use the site to put pressure on the site by not bothering with it if it breaks without JS. Enough people do it and they will get the hint. Or actually talk to the site owners and ask them - I have done this with a small publisher. Or if someone post a link to their JS-requiring blog/site on HN, ask them politely to make it usable without (I do occasionally). If you want to fight back, you have to pay the price. It's a pretty small one for me.
- bloak 6y ago
  JavaScript by itself isn't evil. A static web site that uses JavaScript to let the user do everything on the client provides more privacy than an old-school web site with CGI scripts and forms. I've been playing with this idea recently. If you want to provide access to a database which is infrequently updated and no bigger than a few megabytes (like the catalogue of a library with 30 000 books), then provide the database with the web page and implement the search function in JavaScript. If you avoid using a JavaScript "framework" then you may find that the web page responds to your typing so instantaneously that you feel like you're back in the 1980s using a Z80-based machine. (You remember those Z80-based word processors that could keep up with a competent typist?)
f0ok 6y ago
- Support small/local/regional cyber organizations that respect users online and motivate them build dynamic online communities instead of mass aggregates of UIDs. - Use open source softwares that respect my rights and privacy. - Decentralize my financial and technological options. - Randomly support a small but empowering online project that someone started. - Wear an N95 mask when browsing online. - Reconsider gopher as a healthy and viable way to access data :-)
staycoolboy 6y ago
I've been trying to build a Mastadon container for docker so that I can convince friends and family to try a smaller social network. First for pictures, then maybe later for more. If, say 1 in every 1000 people knew how to maintain their own small Mastadon server, we could build a decentralized social network with federated identity. I think that would be a noble first step and would not require too much moderation work for the admin: how hard would it be to moderate 200 of your friends and family? not very.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

zdkl 6y ago

Understand the user needs that are being fulfilled by the walled gardens, Build and sell simple, useful and if not open then transparent services or products in order to foster variety in the face of anticompetitive or monopolistic entities, Help resellers/repackagers/... to configure, integrate or adapt such services even if not my own. Y'know, "do one thing and do it well"-style.

saagarjha 6y ago

Personally, I run a website which I use to push my ideals of what the web should look like. I try to educate people on why I think that way and what I think is wrong what they might be doing. If you’re really devoted, you could try contributing to a browser engine to help reign (typo: rein) in the web.

tigerlily 6y ago
There's already a browser engine that reigns in the web. What we need is a browser engine to help rein in the web.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Oops, thanks for catching that! Let me fix it.
- marcus_holmes 6y ago
  took me reading that twice to get what you did there hehe

marcus_holmes 6y ago

Things I want to do this year to help reclaim the web: 1. Run my own personal web server. Starting on a cloud provider, but eventually from my flat. 2. Write my own blog on my own web server. Not using a platform. Not tracking users. 3. Push my side-project code to an open Gitlab repo Way down on this list is "stop commenting on HN", so if you never hear from me again, be glad ;)

MaxBarraclough 6y ago
You might be interested in the IndieWeb folks' thoughts: https://indieweb.org/POSSE https://indieweb.org/POSSE > Way down on this list is "stop commenting on HN", I don't see how HN is what's wrong with the web. It's a very well managed online community.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  > I don't see how HN is what's wrong with the web I think he's saying it's a distraction. I agree.
  - marcus_holmes 6y ago
    this. Also I invest way too much emotional involvement in HN commenting. I find it difficult to maintain emotional detachment and not get angry/happy/annoyed/worried/whatever about how many upvotes my comments get. On my list of "important things I need to have on my mind" whether my latest HN comment got upvoted is waaaaaaaay down there (possibly not enough emphasis there on how little this truly matters to my life). And yet it takes up a lot more mental space than that (evidence: this comment). I don't seem to be able to not give a shit about it, so I'm probably better off not doing it at all.
    - tsegratis 6y ago
      ... well, upvoted ;) But consider this a big fat upvote for your life in general, and not related to HN
- 6y ago

benjaminjosephw 6y ago

I'm currently working on a project which I hope to launch later this year that gives users the ability to run, view and modify software using visual tools. There are too many meaningful problems technology could be solving and too few programmers interested in solving those problems. Giving more people the tools to build their own solutions or adapt others is something that could really change the game. There are a few companies exploring this space but we're looking to create open tools that don't enforce a vendor lock-in and tools that defend user freedoms. Viva la revolución!

ianopolous 6y ago

Some friends and I are trying to built a new private web where tracking is impossible without user permission and users own their data: https://book.peergos.org https://book.peergos.org

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago

Replying to @all What I was getting at was dead simpl,e: turn off JS and install a hostfile-based blocklist, or other. It really was that simple. I also enable cookies just for HN posting. Else no cookies of any kind ever accepted. So are people doing that, because if you don't co-operate with their code, tracking you gets vastly harder. You can take back control of you machine - if you choose. It's simple and you can do it now - if you choose. @benjaminjosephw: can you give more detail? (glad you're not just all talk!) @marcus_holmes, @zdkl, @saagarjha: you may need to get together with others to unify the idea of doing your own web servers. A collective not a commercial entity which you are trying to avoid being involved in. That gives you together much more power. I think that's what @MaxBarraclough is suggesting looking at . I will to. @saagarjha: writing your own browser engine seems totally pointless - it's the web at fault, not the browser that renders it. If you don't like bits of the browser, remove the code. Don't understand what you're trying to do.

ttty 6y ago
What do you do when you need a website but it doesn't work without Js? It's a huge pain to make phone calls, or go to the store
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  I use a VM for the few cases I really need to interact with a JS-ridden site, which reverts to a clean state when closed. This should be doable by most HN'ers, we're supposed to be technically savvy. But another way when you need not have to use the site to put pressure on the site by not bothering with it if it breaks without JS. Enough people do it and they will get the hint. Or actually talk to the site owners and ask them - I have done this with a small publisher. Or if someone post a link to their JS-requiring blog/site on HN, ask them politely to make it usable without (I do occasionally). If you want to fight back, you have to pay the price. It's a pretty small one for me.
bloak 6y ago
JavaScript by itself isn't evil. A static web site that uses JavaScript to let the user do everything on the client provides more privacy than an old-school web site with CGI scripts and forms. I've been playing with this idea recently. If you want to provide access to a database which is infrequently updated and no bigger than a few megabytes (like the catalogue of a library with 30 000 books), then provide the database with the web page and implement the search function in JavaScript. If you avoid using a JavaScript "framework" then you may find that the web page responds to your typing so instantaneously that you feel like you're back in the 1980s using a Z80-based machine. (You remember those Z80-based word processors that could keep up with a competent typist?)

f0ok 6y ago

- Support small/local/regional cyber organizations that respect users online and motivate them build dynamic online communities instead of mass aggregates of UIDs. - Use open source softwares that respect my rights and privacy. - Decentralize my financial and technological options. - Randomly support a small but empowering online project that someone started. - Wear an N95 mask when browsing online. - Reconsider gopher as a healthy and viable way to access data :-)

staycoolboy 6y ago

I've been trying to build a Mastadon container for docker so that I can convince friends and family to try a smaller social network. First for pictures, then maybe later for more. If, say 1 in every 1000 people knew how to maintain their own small Mastadon server, we could build a decentralized social network with federated identity. I think that would be a noble first step and would not require too much moderation work for the admin: how hard would it be to moderate 200 of your friends and family? not very.