4 ms·

Or different people have different opinions. Here where I live people who can't go to vote, like very old, get visited by the certified people and they check yo

Or different people have different opinions. Here where I live people who can't go to vote, like very old, get visited by the certified people and they check your documentation. Sending out just mail and getting it back screams a lot of fraud. It's weird that people on HN are against voting online because it can never be secure but are fine what California is doing.

NaOH 6y ago
Colorado has success with mail-in ballots—the state's system is an alternate approach to what you described where you are[1]—and such ballots have never been an issue for US military personnel stationed elsewhere. [1] https://www.5280.com/2020/05/no-fraud-isnt-rampant-in-colorados-mail-in-voting-system/ https://www.5280.com/2020/05/no-fraud-isnt-rampant-in-colora...
- choko 6y ago
  Could it be that there isn't much fraud around mail-in ballots at the moment because it's not the primary method of voting and mail in and absentee ballots aren't always counted? Might this change if mail-in becomes the primary voting method? It seems pretty undeniable that commiting fraud via mail-in ballots would be far easier than if voting were mostly in person. We shouldn't wait for an attack vector to be exploited before securing the vulnerability.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Could it be that there isn't much fraud around mail-in ballots at the moment because it's not the primary method of voting and mail in and absentee ballots aren't always counted? There are states where it is the primary method, and they are (other than overseas absentee ballots, IIRC) in most places counted the same as any other ballots (provisional ballots aren't always counted, but that's a different kettle of fish.) In some cases the process results in them being counted later, which may be after immediate media attention to the counts moves away, but...
    - choko 6y ago
      In what state is mail-in voting accounting for a plurality of votes cast in a national election? That's the only way you could claim that it's the primary method in a given state. Further, mail-in ballots don't tend to lean toward one party or the other at present, so claiming that it's an attempt at Democrat voter suppression is disingenuous. 538 recently published an article on the matter. I would link it, but it's a pain on mobile and I've given you enough info to find the article yourself. This really is about security, an area in which mail-in ballots are lacking.
      - dllthomas 6y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote-by-mail_in_Oregon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote-by-mail_in_Oregon > The U.S. state of Oregon established vote-by-mail as the standard mechanism for voting with Ballot Measure 60, a citizen's initiative, in 1998. The measure made Oregon the first state in the United States to conduct its elections exclusively by mail.
        choko 6y ago
        Interesting. How do they prevent fraud? The goodwill of man isn't an acceptable answer.
        dllthomas 6y ago
        I understand signature matching to be a part of it. I don't know, beyond that. I would expect the Oregon secretary of state's office, or similar, would have more info. I'll spare you the lmgtfy link.
        choko 6y ago
        You should spare the link, since you are making a claim of fact without providing evidence.
        6y ago
cmrx64 6y ago
I was a pollworker in California this past election. Why do you think mail balloting is "a lot of fraud" compared to what happens in a polling place? At the end of the day it's still a signature on a sheet of paper combined with a check before counting that nobody was recorded to have submitted more than one ballot.
wutsweird0 6y ago
What’s weird is trying to peddle your gut as evidence of a real problem. It’s clear you’ve done little to learn about the process. It’s not as if a piece of paper written on with crayon and sent back in the ballot envelope gets counted. It’s weird you’ll probably be all “oh yes this math about computer stuff is just right” but seem to ignore how the math of investigating fraud has usually revealed it in broad daylight. Not in any of the dozens of elections 100% of vote by mail states have used it for for years now. But by plainly corrupt politicians and their sycophants, not the voters of the general public. Yet your knee jerk reaction is to deflect on your neighbors as if they’re the problem we just don’t see it! That’s what’s weird.

NaOH 6y ago

Colorado has success with mail-in ballots—the state's system is an alternate approach to what you described where you are[1]—and such ballots have never been an issue for US military personnel stationed elsewhere. [1] https://www.5280.com/2020/05/no-fraud-isnt-rampant-in-colorados-mail-in-voting-system/ https://www.5280.com/2020/05/no-fraud-isnt-rampant-in-colora...

choko 6y ago
Could it be that there isn't much fraud around mail-in ballots at the moment because it's not the primary method of voting and mail in and absentee ballots aren't always counted? Might this change if mail-in becomes the primary voting method? It seems pretty undeniable that commiting fraud via mail-in ballots would be far easier than if voting were mostly in person. We shouldn't wait for an attack vector to be exploited before securing the vulnerability.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Could it be that there isn't much fraud around mail-in ballots at the moment because it's not the primary method of voting and mail in and absentee ballots aren't always counted? There are states where it is the primary method, and they are (other than overseas absentee ballots, IIRC) in most places counted the same as any other ballots (provisional ballots aren't always counted, but that's a different kettle of fish.) In some cases the process results in them being counted later, which may be after immediate media attention to the counts moves away, but...
  - choko 6y ago
    In what state is mail-in voting accounting for a plurality of votes cast in a national election? That's the only way you could claim that it's the primary method in a given state. Further, mail-in ballots don't tend to lean toward one party or the other at present, so claiming that it's an attempt at Democrat voter suppression is disingenuous. 538 recently published an article on the matter. I would link it, but it's a pain on mobile and I've given you enough info to find the article yourself. This really is about security, an area in which mail-in ballots are lacking.
    - dllthomas 6y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote-by-mail_in_Oregon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote-by-mail_in_Oregon > The U.S. state of Oregon established vote-by-mail as the standard mechanism for voting with Ballot Measure 60, a citizen's initiative, in 1998. The measure made Oregon the first state in the United States to conduct its elections exclusively by mail.
      - choko 6y ago
        Interesting. How do they prevent fraud? The goodwill of man isn't an acceptable answer.
        dllthomas 6y ago
        I understand signature matching to be a part of it. I don't know, beyond that. I would expect the Oregon secretary of state's office, or similar, would have more info. I'll spare you the lmgtfy link.
        choko 6y ago
        You should spare the link, since you are making a claim of fact without providing evidence.
        6y ago

cmrx64 6y ago

I was a pollworker in California this past election. Why do you think mail balloting is "a lot of fraud" compared to what happens in a polling place? At the end of the day it's still a signature on a sheet of paper combined with a check before counting that nobody was recorded to have submitted more than one ballot.

wutsweird0 6y ago

What’s weird is trying to peddle your gut as evidence of a real problem. It’s clear you’ve done little to learn about the process. It’s not as if a piece of paper written on with crayon and sent back in the ballot envelope gets counted. It’s weird you’ll probably be all “oh yes this math about computer stuff is just right” but seem to ignore how the math of investigating fraud has usually revealed it in broad daylight. Not in any of the dozens of elections 100% of vote by mail states have used it for for years now. But by plainly corrupt politicians and their sycophants, not the voters of the general public. Yet your knee jerk reaction is to deflect on your neighbors as if they’re the problem we just don’t see it! That’s what’s weird.